A suggestion for manufacturers and retailers: a "region" classification

[newbryford]

On 12/03/2021 at 13:26, The Johnster said:

There’s also the issue of locos transferred to different areas over time and of inter-regional trains.  Class 33s were transferred to Canton in the 80s, for example, and worked to Crewe,

 

 

And also through to Manchester Piccadilly.

 

 

[newbryford]

On 12/03/2021 at 13:20, Chris M said:

 

 

Part of building a model railway should be finding out a bit about the stock you are running. I think it’s fine for folk to run whatever they want on their layout ( I do on my garden railway) but knowing even little about the real version of each item helps to give some depth to running the trains.

 

Totally agree.

I'm afraid that some folk these days are sitting back and wanting to be "spoon fed".

I have a job where part of it is trying to teach a man to fish, rather than feeding him fish for a day.............

[Wheatley]

11 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Only one company TTBOMK makes an RTR Black 5, with only one tooling, 

Both wheelbases, both boilers, welded and rivetted tenders, vacuum pimp/no vacuum pump, normsl/lowered top lamp brackets and all dome/topfeed combinations are represented on the various Hornby toolings. I don't think the part-welded tenders are, and the later side windows aren't. 

 

Apart from the crappy bogie wheels (common to all Hornby locos but easily fixed) and the odd valance under the tender, there isn't a lot wrong with the Black 5. I've got eight. 

 

Agree with your views on moaning millenials though, and not just about model railways. 

[Wheatley]

On 12/03/2021 at 13:20, Chris M said:

I recommend each item comes with a label - “If you want to know when and where this was used ask the internet”. That’s all you need. Especially as things often don’t fit into neat categories anyway. 

Or look in a book. There's a recent thread on here which effectively says "please tell me what worked through this very large major junction of several routes", which would be largely answered by a couple of hours with the relevant Bradford Barton* album.

 

(*Or currently in print equivalent). 

[griffgriff]

On 12/03/2021 at 10:17, MarkSG said:

....  a 1960s Thumper wouldn't run on the same track as a Bubblecar, despite being from the same era.

 

Sounds like a challenge to me

 

Reading I’m guessing or Kenny O but that’s the problem, there are going to be a number of exceptions. Too many tbh and besides if you were that bothered surely you’d research it.

 

BTW Hattons have started to publish example train formations and Accurascale do the same.

 

Griff

Edited March 14, 2021 by griffgriff
Problem with quote

[caradoc]

Certainly Reading (as I mentioned earlier in this topic !) but on further reflection, also Bristol/Bath, possibly Westbury too. 

 

[JohnR]

I note that most of the arguments being advanced against such a region identifyer were also used against the era system.....

[spamcan61]

2 minutes ago, JohnR said:

I note that most of the arguments being advanced against such a region identifyer were also used against the era system.....

Yep, I've always found that pretty useless as well.

[eldomtom2]

2 hours ago, JohnR said:

I note that most of the arguments being advanced against such a region identifyer were also used against the era system.....

The era system is baby boomer-biased trash, completely unfit for purpose. Just print a date range on the box.

[Dungrange]

I agree that a date range would be preferable to an Era, but I've nothing against the Era system.  I used to find it quite helpful before Bachmann 'improved' their website, as it was possible to sort their catalogue by Era.  I could then just look at new products, especially wagons, for Eras 8 and 9 and then research further as required.  That is, it was a way of sifting out products that I'm unlikely to be interested in, like Private Owner coal wagons or vacuum braked stock. 

 

However, I'm not so sure about a regional system.  Do you include something that may have made an occasional appearance or restrict the qualifying criteria to stock that was common?  Also, some stock may be limited to a single line within the region, so is not really representative of the region as a whole.  That said, manufacturer's often announce wagons and I find myself asking if that wagon would ever have appeared in central Scotland, so if there was a regional classification applied, it may answer that question for me.  That said, it's not really a big issue trying to find the answer to whether or not I could justify a purchase.

[tomparryharry]

Just a little thought here. I notice the are/region discussion, and it's a bit of a minefield.  Wales  has typically 3 regions, namely  south, mid, and north. Actually, to be slightly pedantic, it'll be south, coalfield, mid & north. To add to that, there will be east & west  also. 

 

It might surprise people, but Wales doesn't start at Bristol; more likely Gloucester,  in railway parlance.  The development of the railway at Severn Tunnel quite neatly defines both region and era.  people tend to think in terms of Wales= Great Western, but there's Midland, and further up, LNWR. 

 

Regions & companies do intermingle, depending on era.  There is at least one place in wales where the top of the hill is one railway company, and the bottom of the hill is very definitely another.  We're talking about 3/4 mile here; end to end... One valley over, and it changes again, all within 3 miles....

 

I'd suggest gaining a copy of the RCH maps for your respective region/era. 

 

"Look here! We've never had a Raven Pacific west of Swansea!"  Or... Did we..... ? 

[HonestTom]

I do think the idea of some kind of simple guide as to where locomotives and rolling stock would have run is a good one, but as others have noted, there are many pitfalls and exceptions to the rules. I have seen a photo of a North British Railway-liveried wagon at Bow in the 1930s, but is it therefore reasonable to list any North British wagon as suitable to run to London in the Grouping era? Then we have two ranges of generic coaches, which if we're going to be pedantic, would not have run anywhere.

 

I would suggest approaching the matter differently. Rather than add the specifics to every single model, my suggestion would be a simple and consistent website that outlines the basics. Say, a list of regions or lines and what, approximately, would have run on them, plus caveats re general rules and exceptions. And of course, a note acknowledging that it's not a totally comprehensive guide and more research is needed for absolute accuracy. Perhaps it would be an exercise for a retailer, with links to the appropriate products. Hattons already does formation guides, which I feel are a decent starting point. 

[rue_d_etropal]

It is odd that it is now easier to do resrarch , because of the internet, but people now want to be spoon fed information.

I recently started putting website links on my 3D printed listings, as I felt it was more reliable than me rewriting the same information on my listing. Not perfect, as I do notice errors on websites, and websites do disappear sometimes. All  I do is do a simple Google search whch takes next to no time, and record the website address.

 

Maybe a link to a website with all relevant info , possible that link only via manufacturer's own website, rather than link being printed on information sheets with the model.

Trouble is , what ever system you use to catalogue different items, someone will always ask for it to be done slightly differnt to suit them . I think some companies are tempted to try and add as many category types as possible, but this then leads to overly complex databases which eventually grind themselves into the ground. Searches beome more complex, and more often return incorrect results, and it would be a lot easier for everyone to keep the system simple in the first place.

[The Black Hat]

On 12/03/2021 at 15:18, SD85 said:

You're also going to get some weird anomalies whereby technically a loco will qualify for one region but only on a very narrow basis, for example all the ex-GW engines that worked over the Reading-Redhill line. Technically that would justify a Southern/SE region operations notice, but then you'd have to explain that they were only seen in a limited capacity there, outline all the caveats etc.

 

And then there's the issue of the S&D....

No issue with the S&D. Its North Eastern region... always has been and its still there, still in use today! 

[Zomboid]

Region information would only really mean "commonly seen in...". Which isn't useless information, but the way the LNER and LMS in particular overlapped in places would mean a region like "yorkshire" contain almost everything that ever ran on either company's routes.

 

To be honest the research is half the fun anyway isn't it? Even for someone like me who hasn't got anything approaching a fine scale attitude...

Edited March 30, 2021 by Zomboid