Jump to content
 

Very short trains on Southern lines in Devon


Guest Jack Benson
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest Jack Benson

Just wondering, what constituted a very short train on Southern lines in Devon (maybe Cornwall, too) at the end of the Southern in the late ‘40s

 

81842570-0E85-48EB-A123-1C2387760E75.jpeg.0b35c84dad4fa1686b4bd60346732840.jpeg

 

The first and obvious example would be a pair of 58’ Maunsell rebuilt  brakes but for school or workmen’s trains would a spare coach be acceptable? I ask as a Bulleid brake and van seemed to be occasionally used in and around Halwill junction but this was during the early ‘60s and previously one of the spare 58’ all thirds were used until the mass cull of pre-grouping stock around ‘58. 

 

I have no idea when exLSWR 6w stock was withdrawn as revenue earning vehicles, presumably in the early ‘30s but at least one of the 6w full brakes seemed to have clung on, coupled to a rather ancient coach(es) for use on the quieter parts of exLSWR territory, reprieved by the advent of WW2.

 

Thank you and Stay Safe

 


 


 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gated stock, mostly, on the branches or a couple of Maunsells as in your picture usually with an M7 or an O2.  Sometimes even a WC/BB especially to Tavistock and beyond.  Sometimes carriages off the Waterloo trains?  There always seemed to be one or two at Friary every now and then.  Never did see any 6W stock.

    Brian.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Jack Benson

Thanks Brian,

 

Perusal of contemporary CWNs seem to indicate occasional single coach workings but no indication of vehicle type, the only images captured of these workings are late in the existence of Southern control of Cornish and Devonian lines. 
 

The other approach is that there in no evidence to the contrary of which stock was used in the late ‘40s but if it does emerge then so much the better. Whatever stock is used, it will not be 6w, except (maybe) the full brake might find some use as departmental. 

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
11 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

Prior to DMUs the Torrington-Halwill Jct passenger services were usually a single (non-auto) coach, sometimes with goods traffic attached.

Very much so. Usually a BCK, rather than a BSK. And at Petrockstow, a venerable single coach sat in the Up platform all day, having brought workmen in the morning and taking them back towards Barnstaple in the evening. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you disappear into the Disused Stations website for a week or two, you will find photos of all dates, not just late-BR, which show formations quite well. I'm fairly sure that the LSWR converted most of its 6W stock to bogie vehicles (two bodies, one frame), or scrapped it, pre-WW1. I do remember reading of some 6W coaches being converted to strawberry vans at that period by painting the windows over and fitting shelves in the compartments, and they certainly built some very good new bogie suburban rakes - I don't think any LSWR 6W suburban stock made it to WW1, let alone the SR, unlike lots of LCDR 6W, and some LBSCR 6W, which weren't withdrawn until electrification in the 1920s. [EDIT: I’m now less sure about all this - the LSWR were building new 6W coaches later than I thought, and I’m not sure that all were converted to bogie vehicles as early as I thought - buy the Wedell books, don’t believe me!]

 

Also, the time of year makes a difference. Outside the summer holiday season, things were pretty quiet in West Devon and North Cornwall, and even The ACE was down to a single BCK for the Plymouth portion, although I think it was tacked onto two coaches provided for the benefit of local travelers. East Devon was a bit different, somewhat less holiday-peak-driven, but if you look at photos you will see that two coaches sufficed for most trains on branches there too, maybe with a strengthener on school trains, except Exeter-Exmouth, which is a tad 'suburban' and had longer trains.

 

As a reminder, the SR built no new loco-hauled non-gangway stock at all, so local trains were either pre-grouping stock, or rebuilt pre-grouping stock at your date.

Edited by Nearholmer
Link to post
Share on other sites

just spent a while looking at photos of Padstow station, and some of the 1930s ones do show the odd 6W coach, one looks like a six-compartment third, on what I think are trains to Bodmin, headed by Beattie Well Tanks - real "model railway" trains with cattle trucks as well as coaches. More photos show 6W luggage/brake vans. By the time anyone could afford film post-War the 6W coach had either gone, or the trains it was in were too lowly to bother snapping.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Jack Benson

Thanks, I took your advice about disused stations and found a few interesting vehicles. These coaches are particularly interesting, I wonder if a 4mm kit is available?

 

StaySafe

 

9CECDEE7-4380-49AB-9793-257F4FCB4D86.png.5e68ef0b7fb776d3527e4acf7009a5a5.png

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Those coaches at Lyme look very short to me, maybe 44ft or 45ft.

 

This from Roxey might be what we are looking at.

 

The Wedell books on LSWR coaches would tell all, but they aren’t cheap to buy.


 

 

 

 

5D778A58-C71A-4820-991C-5FFDEC368ECE.jpeg

Edited by Nearholmer
Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Jack Benson
10 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

Not sure if these are the ones in the pic, but Hornby model the Maunsell rebuilt 58ft LSWR stock commonly used on the branch at this time - see here

Hi,

The Hornby coaches are longer and have different duckets, if you look at first image of set 43, you can see the difference.

 

There is a kit of a set of 42/45’ stock on eBay at the moment, I don’t like the 100% dealer mark up.

 

Perhaps this is when a cut n’shut with either Triang* or Ratio is applicable despite the howls of outrage from the armchair pedants.

 

*I kept all my Terry Gough articles in RM

 

StaySafe

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 42ft Brake Third / 45ft Brake Compo 2-sets were typical on South Western branch lines, including Lyme Regis, for many years until replaced by longer stock in the mid thirties.  Indeed the 'Hornby' 58ft 2-sets of Brake Third & Lavatory Brake Compo (sets 42-46) replaced the 42/45ft  stock on the Lyme Regis branch in 1936 and then held fort until about 1957.  

 

Chris KT

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Jack Benson
20 hours ago, chris45lsw said:

The 42ft Brake Third / 45ft Brake Compo 2-sets were typical on South Western branch lines, including Lyme Regis, for many years until replaced by longer stock in the mid thirties.  Indeed the 'Hornby' 58ft 2-sets of Brake Third & Lavatory Brake Compo (sets 42-46) replaced the 42/45ft  stock on the Lyme Regis branch in 1936 and then held fort until about 1957.  

 

Chris KT

Hi Chris,

 

The 42/45’ sets, similar to the picture at Lyme,  were all withdrawn by the mid ‘30s as you correctly commented. Other odd older coaches noted in the area was one of the exSECR 100 seat coaches offered by Worsley Works and I cannot find any* images of other pre-grouping Southern coaches in revenue earning service beyond ‘48 in Devon and Cornwall. However, three car exLSWR sets were still running around the ‘near west’ as seen in the wonderful image at Dorchester of Sir Leodegrance on a Weymouth-Andover service in August ‘54. Courtesy of Mike Morant at SmugMug

 

*Beyond those already mentioned in the thread, Gate stock etc.

 

2E87E6D2-6DB2-4979-BFCA-CC74E6E92832.jpeg.3ca9d67e3b4ba8dcd77078e4b129f63b.jpeg

Edited by Jack Benson
Correcting omission
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
On 13/03/2021 at 22:51, dpgibbons said:

Prior to DMUs the Torrington-Halwill Jct passenger services were usually a single (non-auto) coach, sometimes with goods traffic attached.

 

Like this?

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/t/torrington/index10.html

 

Not too sure which loco that is - is it 41295 (allocated to Barnstaple Junction)?

Brake coach?

Coal wagons and a guards van?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I thought that too.

 

If you look on the Col. Stephens Soc. site, there is a brief section about the ND&CJLR, where you can see E1Rs with the predecessor Maunsell version, I think.

 

I think if I had a sudden outbreak of fine-scale, I'd be drawn to model this line, because it combined the Southern ethic with the LR ethic, and one setting could be used for almost the entire span of its life, so multiple types of train, even leftover narrow gauge ones. Its a really nice bike ride too, if a bit over-popular at weekends.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

What a great photo at Dorchester of your typical SR local; big engine, little carriages presumably going to back in for all those waiting passengers; an odd arrangement but it lasted.  Even has a QM brake handy.

     Brian

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...