Incident at Kirkby

[Craig1989]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/massive-damage-kirkby-station-after-20140697

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, Craig1989 said:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/massive-damage-kirkby-station-after-20140697

 

There have been similar incidents at Kirkby  in 1991 and 1997.

 

[TravisM]

Well, you can kiss goodbye to either a 507 or 508 with the new units coming on stream.

[Bucoops]

Considering the mess, I'm surprised the BBC don't have this on their news pages (or if they do, it's well hidden).

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Massive damage??

 

Mike.

[Kris]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Massive damage??

 

Blame the headline writers for the massive damage to the intelligence of the reader.

[Siberian Snooper]

Nothing on the RAIB site so far.

 

 

[4069]

The RAIB site does not get updated on Sundays. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by 4069

[John M Upton]

That terrible local newspaper website had my Adblocker running red hot!

[Wheatley]

Massive damage to the buffer stop maybe (for this is no more than a buffer stop collision, albeit quite a spectacular one). Possibly considerable damage to the front vehicle depending on where the buffer stop went. Some minor damage to the platform copers. No disruption because it's not a through route and no-one is commuting anyway, and no injuries. 

 

Also it's a long way from London and none of the national newspapers will know where Kirkby is even with a map, so no interest. 

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

That terrible local newspaper website had my Adblocker running red hot!

Sadly, all the locals have gone the same way, no money in news these days without adverts.  The once might Manchester Evening News feels more like clickbait these days given away in the street and a website that is more adverts than articles and mainly focussed on celebrity gossip.

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Wheatley said:

Massive damage to the buffer stop maybe (for this is no more than a buffer stop collision, albeit quite a spectacular one). Possibly considerable damage to the front vehicle depending on where the buffer stop went. Some minor damage to the platform copers. No disruption because it's not a through route and no-one is commuting anyway, and no injuries. 

 

Also it's a long way from London and none of the national newspapers will know where Kirkby is even with a map, so no interest. 

 

Aren't they? The buses and trains have been packed constantly through the epidemic. Not everyone works in offices. They tend to travel by car anyway.

 

Kirkby is where all the distribution warehouses and factories are. No one may have been going there at that time. But it's where tens of thousands of people work and most of those places have kept working.

 

 

Seems the union is involved. Maybe not being covered as it's a disciplinary matter?

 

Mick Cash, general secretary of the RMT union, said it was "engaged in the investigation currently under way by the relevant bodies".

"It is essential that the full facts are established and in the meantime the union will ‎be providing full support to our Merseyrail members," he added.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-56393532

 

 

That's not a little bash. Must have been travelling at some speed to cause that much damage.

 

https://www.facebook.com/RMTunion/photos/pb.199676720083396.-2207520000../3998239666893730/?type=3&theater

 

 

Jason

[John M Upton]

Could a recently withdrawn 314 or 315 driving car be utilised?  Mind you there is still the possibility that the second coach could also be damaged which means that would need repair and or replacement too.

[Wickham Green too]

 

Looks like there might be class 313 driving trailer going spare 

......... ready fitted for third rail pickup !

[Wheatley]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Aren't they? The buses and trains have been packed constantly through the epidemic. 

...

Seems the union is involved. Maybe not being covered as it's a disciplinary matter?

Passenger numbers are down 80% overall so there is a perception that trains are just moving fresh air around, we all know there are local exceptions.

 

The unions are involved by default (as observers) because it's a formal inquiry rather than an internal TOC one. Plus whatever RAIB and ORR decide to do. 

 

I was attempting to explain the lack of interest by the national press commented on by others, not belittling the incident itself. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Wheatley

[John M Upton]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

 

Looks like there might be class 313 driving trailer going spare 

......... ready fitted for third rail pickup !

Nah, it will be fixed, plenty of gaffer tape still in the spares store.  We managed to get 313220 back in action after it’s much bigger inferno and that had a massive hole burnt through the floor.  313203’s little cook up last week was pretty tame by comparison.

 

Still need to get another two or three years at least of work out of our 313s yet....

[john new]

On 14/03/2021 at 09:14, 4069 said:

The RAIB site does not get updated on Sundays. 

Roughly how long before the initial reports go up. Nothing yet about either Kirkby (probably serious enough) or the EMU fire at Worthing. (possibly too minor).

Edited March 15, 2021 by john new

[Wheatley]

A Network Rail mate suggests the front two vehicles went through the buffers and the first one went over the concrete block between the two sets of buffers. Cutting it up on site is apparently an option. 

[beast66606]

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

A Network Rail mate suggests the front two vehicles went through the buffers and the first one went over the concrete block between the two sets of buffers. Cutting it up on site is apparently an option. 

 

37800 is currently stabled at Lime Street - it's planned to go to Kirkby tomorrow AM to drag the unit away, how many of the 3-cars is yet to be seen.

 

[beast66606]

On 14/03/2021 at 01:29, jools1959 said:

Well, you can kiss goodbye to either a 507 or 508 with the new units coming on stream.

 

507006 is the damaged one.

 

507021 (the rear unit) returned to Kirkdale under it's own power.

[TravisM]

On 14/03/2021 at 17:18, 313201 said:

I don't see why not because a driving coach from 507022 was repaired for use in 314203 after it's original driving was damaged beyond economic repair in a collision although I cannot remember exactly when it happened.

 

The 507 driving coach was rewired for 25Kv operation and it was attached to the other coaches from 314203 and put into service.

 

As the 313s are dual voltage units I don't think there would be any issues with attaching any spare 313 driving coaches to a 507 unit because as far as I know a 313 can work in multiple with a 508 on dc power only and as the 313 motors are designed to take 25Kv AC and 750v DC traction power then it should work.

Urm, I think you’ll find the middle coach, the PTSO which has the transformer and rectifier installed, deals with the 25Kv AC or 750V DC via the pantograph or shoe gear and then sends the correct current to the traction motors via bus wires.  None of the other internal wiring needs to be altered.

 

The Class 507 DMS that was converted into a 314 basically had the shoe gear removed and a pan up or down selector switch installed in the driver’s cab.  I think this was same arrangement that happened with the three 508’s but obviously kept the shoe gear, that worked for Silverlink on the Euston - Watford Junction services.  
 

The pan selector was if they coupled to a 313 and needed to drop the pan remotely.  I think the 508’s were also banned on the NLL because of breaks in the 3rd rail after the wires went up, but I’m happy to be proven wrong.

Edited March 16, 2021 by jools1959
Additional information

[roythebus1]

On 14/03/2021 at 17:18, 313201 said:

I don't see why not because a driving coach from 507022 was repaired for use in 314203 after it's original driving was damaged beyond economic repair in a collision although I cannot remember exactly when it happened.

 

The 507 driving coach was rewired for 25Kv operation and it was attached to the other coaches from 314203 and put into service.

 

As the 313s are dual voltage units I don't think there would be any issues with attaching any spare 313 driving coaches to a 507 unit because as far as I know a 313 can work in multiple with a 508 on dc power only and as the 313 motors are designed to take 25Kv AC and 750v DC traction power then it should work.

The motors work on 750 volts dc, no ac on that side. all control voltages are about 110dc if I remember correctly. surely there's no driving trailers on them, driving coaches are both motor coaches. 

[roythebus1]

On 14/03/2021 at 18:45, John M Upton said:

Nah, it will be fixed, plenty of gaffer tape still in the spares store.  We managed to get 313220 back in action after it’s much bigger inferno and that had a massive hole burnt through the floor.  313203’s little cook up last week was pretty tame by comparison.

 

Still need to get another two or three years at least of work out of our 313s yet....

My son was fleet engineer for the Southern's "BR heritage" fleet. He used to watch a lot of Blue Peter, so is well conversed with sticky-backed plastic and washing up liquid bottles to make things.   He does delay apportionment at the moment!

 

[roythebus1]

Form reports on the BR staff "Lost Boys" group, it was a senior driver who was on the unit.

 

Having experienced the WSP on the 508s in my days on the Southern, it is worrying when you put the brake on and you here the reassuring psst psst psst psst..as you approach the stops and think "oh dear' or words to that effect. It happened to me at Hampton Court and went up the sand drag.

 

[cheesysmith]

Best brown underwear moment I had was coming out of totley tunnel at 90, dry on the hope side, drizzle on the sheffield side. Find signal against you for the dore single line section, touch brakes and all you get is pssh psssh psssh as ASB kicks in. you come round the corner and find the signal for the section clear, and thank your deity.

 

158s can motor, but not the best at stopping lol.