Early Industrials Injectors

[SR71]

I've been looking through the reference photos of early industrials here;

 

https://imageleicestershire.org.uk/index.php?a=QuickSearch&q=contractor&WINID=1615649468276

 

I noticed that all the engines seemed to have 2 injectors, one under each side of the saddle tank, which surprised me. I know that now any operational steam loco would have a pair as a matter of basic it safety but it surprised me that then when engines were being built to a price that they would bother with any redundancy...

It also means I have to scratch 2 injectors rather than one for a current project, a task I'm now doubly not looking forward too.

[Ruston]

How do you know they have two injectors when you can only see one side in those photos? A lot of the small Manning Wardles had an injector on the left hand side and a valve and pipe to an eccentric-driven pump on the right hand side.

 

What is your current project?

[SR71]

50 minutes ago, Ruston said:

How do you know they have two injectors when you can only see one side in those photos?

 

Good question, I couldn't find a photo of either a left or a right without an injector but your point about the valve feeding the opposing injector is an interesting one. I need to go back through and see if I've mistaken the valve for an injector (I probably have).

 

I'm overthinking a Hardy's Hudswell Clarke at the moment. I can't post photos from my phone but the thread is here;

 

 

[Ruston]

You ought to ask the admin to move your thread into this section, where it may get more attention. It must be  bit disheartening when no one replies, or gives 'likes'. At least in the industrial section we are all together in being ignored by everyone else.

[5050]

3 hours ago, Ruston said:

 we are all together in being ignored by everyone else.

Speak for yourself whoever you are

[Gordon A]

As far as I am aware all 20th century locos have two injectors, even small industrials.

It is a case of safety not redundancy. If you only have one means of putting cold water into your boiler which plays up / does not work you are up the creek without a paddle. You can only proceed as far as the water remaining in the boiler will last while still covering the crown of the boiler.

 

Gordon A

[Regularity]

7 hours ago, Ruston said:

You ought to ask the admin to move your thread into this section, where it may get more attention. It must be  bit disheartening when no one replies, or gives 'likes'. At least in the industrial section we are all together in being ignored by everyone else.

 

3 hours ago, 5050 said:

Speak for yourself whoever you are

Have you noticed how he hasn't replied to your remark yet?

[SR71]

Hello all, having spent many an evening reading your chat I'm pleased you've come to play in my thread.

 

10 hours ago, Ruston said:

You ought to ask the admin to move your thread into this section, where it may get more attention. It must be  bit disheartening when no one replies, or gives 'likes'.

 

It was originally supposed to be for all things but I seem to have ended up with many industrials. How does one find an admin? Post the same phrase three times?

 

4 hours ago, Gordon A said:

As far as I am aware all 20th century locos have two injectors, even small industrials.

It is a case of safety not redundancy.

 

The Hudswell contractors are 19th I think? It makes sense that you have two for safety but Victorians weren't ones for spending money on safety...

 

I did have another look through some of the photos but every 'valve' had a steam feed so I presume them to be injectors. I guess engines were a big investment so you wanted to keep them safe even if you weren't too fussed about your workers.

[ian@stenochs]

I have seen a photo of an early Barclay, piano tank, with a Gifford injector on the left side of the footplate.  The Gifford injector was not self starting and had a control wheel on the end so had to be accessible. The view is 3/4 rear and there is no back, only a rail, on the cab. 
There were main line locos built with only one injector but most also had a pump.  I cannot say that I have seen any evidence of a pump on a Barclay loco, yet!

Ian.

[johnofwessex]

Henbury & Portbury on the Bristol Harbour Railway have an injector and a pump which I was told is common on Industrials

[rope runner]

14 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

Henbury & Portbury on the Bristol Harbour Railway have an injector and a pump which I was told is common on Industrials

 

These Peckett and Avonside locos both have an injector (possibly 2?) and are unusual in also having a crosshead-driven boiler feed pump too. This is a non-standard fitting and would have been fitted after they were acquired. 

 

With regard to these early contractors locos the boiler feed pump was driven by a single eccentric inside the frames. This enters through a clack in much the same way as an injector does. Eccentric-driven boiler feed pumps were done away with fairly early on as if the water froze you would destroy the pump and eccentric strap if you tried to move the loco. 

 

On 15/03/2021 at 23:20, SR71 said:

I guess engines were a big investment so you wanted to keep them safe even if you weren't too fussed about your workers.

 

There is certainly clear evidence of 19th century contractors locos having only one injector and an axle pump. 

 

Where one injector was carried this was on the fireman's side (LHS). In the linked album in the first post there are several 0-4-0ST locos which don't appear to have a separate injector assembly on the drivers side (see slides of MW LIVERPOOL and SUTTON and Hunslet ANNIE and the unnamed example at Catesby). Where there is some gubbins on the footplate it is a sandbox control rod and there's a few with what appears to be a tank drain or a loop over from another feed (possibly the axle pump, as the bypass would have had to have been controlled from the cab). 

 

Paul A. 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by 1whitemoor

[SR71]

 

On 16/03/2021 at 21:33, johnofwessex said:

Henbury & Portbury on the Bristol Harbour Railway have an injector and a pump which I was told is common on Industrials

 

Good tip to look at them. Not sure if a crosshead pump is right for the build I'm doing now but I might try one on something else;

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/70393468@N00/120600857/

 

And the other side showing regular injector for completeness;

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/crayzy_ray/4096688482/

 

@1whitemoor
thank you for taking the time to highlight particular examples. Looking at SUTTON is that aa kind of styrrup pump?!

 

[Corbs]

As far as I understand it the crosshead pumps were indeed fitted by the port company.

On Portbury the sole injector is on the fireman's side, the pump on the driver's, and it's activated by a crude-looking lever that is similar to that used for the sandbox, just a simple push/pull movement. As I understand all it does is open the water feed valve from the tank.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Corbs