brenn Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Hi I’ve dusted down my Hornby class 56 ( blue 56 013 new type) for chipping to Dcc. Once I got it on the rolling road I found the motor buzz but no moment. I been to stripping it down so can see what might be the cause and can see the motor try to spin but the Carden shafts binding. I think it a problem with the gear trains in the bogies so wound like some advice so I don’t damage it. 1 how is the bogie tower removed from the chassis 2 Can I gain access to the gears in the bogie by removing the bottom of the bogie? If so how’s this done. please send pictures if you can thanks in advance B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James90012 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Very strange timing - I just yesterday had the same problem with my 56013. I'll summarise what I did but would also appreciate views of others in case I have missed anything. My 56 had the same symptoms - buzz but no movement. The issue with mine was apparently a common issue where the grease Hornby use at the top of the bogies seizes after periods without use. The main thing you need to do is to take the body off, then unclip the plastic on top of the bogie tower - this came off really easily with a slight prying with a screwdriver. Once removed you will be able to take the bogie out - you don't need to go through the bottom of the bogie. Once removed and unclipped you will likely see the gold piece which connects to the gears in the bogie. Mine was covered in green, solid grease so could not be moved. This slides off quite easily as a single piece - the grey metal squares hold it in place but are not glued. The grease on mine was solid though between the metal square and the gold worm(?) but a soak in warm water with washing up liquid softened it a little. It is a nightmare to get every bit of grease off. Once clean and dried, I put it all together and voila it ran very smoothly and silently. I reapplied some oil which seemed to run off (squeaking occurred after 30 minutes) so would appreciate views on a suitable replacement grease. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 6 minutes ago, James90012 said: Very strange timing - I just yesterday had the same problem with my 56013. I'll summarise what I did but would also appreciate views of others in case I have missed anything. My 56 had the same symptoms - buzz but no movement. The issue with mine was apparently a common issue where the grease Hornby use at the top of the bogies seizes after periods without use. The main thing you need to do is to take the body off, then unclip the plastic on top of the bogie tower - this came off really easily with a slight prying with a screwdriver. Once removed you will be able to take the bogie out - you don't need to go through the bottom of the bogie. Once removed and unclipped you will likely see the gold piece which connects to the gears in the bogie. Mine was covered in green, solid grease so could not be moved. This slides off quite easily as a single piece - the grey metal squares hold it in place but are not glued. The grease on mine was solid though between the metal square and the gold worm(?) but a soak in warm water with washing up liquid softened it a little. It is a nightmare to get every bit of grease off. Once clean and dried, I put it all together and voila it ran very smoothly and silently. I reapplied some oil which seemed to run off (squeaking occurred after 30 minutes) so would appreciate views on a suitable replacement grease. That exactly my problem...... I’ve not used it for years......how easy does the top of the bogie tower cover come off.....what’s the best technique? Im going through my collection chipping them now I’ve starting to build my layout and the amount that I’ve found that has some issue is really annoying....especially trying to get the copper lights lugs to contact properly. Thanks B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James90012 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) The bogie cover comes off very easily, you just need to slide a thin small screwdriver on the inside of the frame - or potentially I think you can insert the screwdriver into a small gap on the side. It might 'ping' though so make sure you're somewhere it can bounce to! This video on YouTube was very useful for me - though you won't need to take the PCB out or the motor, just the bogie. . Edited March 15, 2021 by James90012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 2 hours ago, James90012 said: The bogie cover comes off very easily, you just need to slide a thin small screwdriver on the inside of the frame - or potentially I think you can insert the screwdriver into a small gap on the side. It might 'ping' though so make sure you're somewhere it can bounce to! This video on YouTube was very useful for me - though you won't need to take the PCB out or the motor, just the bogie. . Thanks I’ll watch it later Ive got them off and your right the grease has turned in to concrete so I stripped the worm screw down and will WD40 and oil them. Those little washers were discovered after cleaning......there seems to be a few of these tricky little bits to watch out for when stripping down this loco .Like you I’d like some advice about grease and where best to get some. I presume it used for the worm housing. I’ve put light oil on for now. It look like the square seating nuts have shifted abit in their housing on top of the bogie so I think this has contributed to the screws locking solid. I did notice that 2 set of wheels don’t turn the cogs at the top of the tower at all on one bogie so I’m going to have to dismantle to bogie to see if the cogs are damaged but I’m still unsure how best to do this. Any advice on this procedure? I have attached some photos of what I seen so far. It a shame as I’m only try to swap the body for a coal sector sound version which I plan to sell on so I’m not working invested in this chassis once I finished it. A lot of work to just sell on but I’m quite enjoying solving the issues that I found with my fleet as I chip and service them. What I have noticed it was a lot easier back in the day with Hornby and Lima locos.........not so many bit that break and fly off. B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 20 minutes ago, brenn said: Thanks I’ll watch it later Ive got them off and your right the grease has turned in to concrete so I stripped the worm screw down and will WD40 and oil them. Those little washers were discovered after cleaning......there seems to be a few of these tricky little bits to watch out for when stripping down this loco .Like you I’d like some advice about grease and where best to get some. I presume it used for the worm housing. I’ve put light oil on for now. It look like the square seating nuts have shifted abit in their housing on top of the bogie so I think this has contributed to the screws locking solid. I did notice that 2 set of wheels don’t turn the cogs at the top of the tower at all on one bogie so I’m going to have to dismantle to bogie to see if the cogs are damaged but I’m still unsure how best to do this. Any advice on this procedure? I have attached some photos of what I seen so far. It a shame as I’m only try to swap the body for a coal sector sound version which I plan to sell on so I’m not working invested in this chassis once I finished it. A lot of work to just sell on but I’m quite enjoying solving the issues that I found with my fleet as I chip and service them. What I have noticed it was a lot easier back in the day with Hornby and Lima locos.........not so many bit that break and fly off. B More photos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 I’ve just found the lugs to remove the non functioning bogie and the central wheel cog was fitted the wrong way round hence that’s way it not powering those 2 wheels sets.....funny I’d near noticed that they weren’t working before al this and it’s a simple fix....thank goodness! I’ll clean and oil and start the reassemble process.....learning process continues as I’ve had many issues with my fleet. One point I find very annoying is try to get the lights working as I find the common issue is to seating of the contact strips and not just this loco......anybody got advise? B B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 WD40 is a definite no-no for models imho. Keep in the garage or engineering workshop. It's a water dispersant, hence the name, not a lubricant. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted March 15, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2021 WD40 also make an electrical contact cleaner which is fine to use on models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 No I’ve just used it to clean and used light oil as a lubricant. The worm screws are spinning much better now on both bogies and I’ll start the long process of rewiring the bogies to the board tomorrow.....along with front board, coupling spring. And fan assembly and see how it works. B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40034_Nick Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 I have used this on all my diesels for years without any issues and they run amazing, i have actually got second hand stuff to run amazing with this grease. I have been slated on here before for suggesting this stuff, but i have amazing results with it. !! https://www.amazon.co.uk/Carlube-Purpose-Lithium-Grease-Lubricant/dp/B073X4FTMK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, 40034_Nick said: I have used this on all my diesels for years without any issues and they run amazing, i have actually got second hand stuff to run amazing with this grease. I have been slated on here before for suggesting this stuff, but i have amazing results with it. !! https://www.amazon.co.uk/Carlube-Purpose-Lithium-Grease-Lubricant/dp/B073X4FTMK Thanks why has you and this been slated, whats the argument against it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40034_Nick Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, brenn said: Thanks why has you and this been slated, whats the argument against it? No idea... Maybe cause it hasnt got a picture of a train on the side of it ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Just for the record, most locos that haven't been used for a few years can suffer from "grease turned to concrete". As a regular buyer of "pre-owned, mint" on ebay, often I suspect purchases for a layout that never happened, the problem is a common one. If power is applied and nothing much happens, don't carry on applying power as it can result in a burned out motor, particularly annoying as it was fine before you started! Any doubts at all and you need to have a look inside and see if the parts of the mechanism and wheels move by finger pressure, if not then then clean out accordingly. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 Good point John.......I’ve learnt that lesson with a 44 where the carden shift collet split. I’ve oiled the work screw and gears but I’m wondering if I should get some form of grease on before reassembling the bogie tower........ what the consensus of the forum? B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40034_Nick Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, brenn said: Good point John.......I’ve learnt that lesson with a 44 where the carden shift collet split. I’ve oiled the work screw and gears but I’m wondering if I should get some form of grease on before reassembling the bogie tower........ what the consensus of the forum? B What i use 4 posts above Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 2 hours ago, brenn said: Good point John.......I’ve learnt that lesson with a 44 where the carden shift collet split. I’ve oiled the work screw and gears but I’m wondering if I should get some form of grease on before reassembling the bogie tower........ what the consensus of the forum? B Consistent with 40034 Nick, the general view these days is that an appropriate grease should be used on the worm and gears, and thin lub oil on bearings. The important thing is to do this sparingly, use less than you think and it will work its way around. Otherwise excess oil and grease get everywhere you don't want, on the wheels and pickups potentially obstructing current flow, and ending up on your track. Cleaning then becomes essential, and it's not the way most of us like to spend our modelling time! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47164 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Great thread, I recently picked up one on eBay relisted as a non runner, the nuts/ bearings were locked solid with the famous green gunge, and now freed up and runs superbly , what I do find odd is that I have a number of other 56’s and 50’s which aren’t used that often and none have suffered the same way. I have another with a broken coupling mount has anyone any experience in replacing the part ? I assume it is mounted to the chassis as opposed to any part of the bogie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 I’m just about to refit the coupling mount tomorrow. It looks pretty easy as long as you got the tiny spring. I can take some photos if you want? I have noticed that 56 013 has a kind of plastic wrap for the buffer beam and the body profile reflects this which the late type 56 doesn’t, as you can see from my earlier pictures. This does have lug which needs to fit at the same point as the coupling under the screwed plate. let me know if you want pictures I’ll doing it in the afternoon B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47164 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 That would be great please...also like others I have a challenge in getting all lights to function, which I imagine is down to the contacts as I have only one tail light. Working at present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 NP...... I’ll send them later.....funny you mentioned the contact strips as they have to be moved to get at the coupling so I’m going to see if by raising the contact strip slightly it’ll get the lights working although I’m trying a body swap. Im trying to avoid soldiering wire to these contacts strips but this issue is wide spread in my fleet and only doesn’t occur where the manufacturer has a direct wire connection, such as, Dapol 22,29, and some Heljan locos B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40034_Nick Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 14 hours ago, 47164 said: Great thread, I recently picked up one on eBay relisted as a non runner, the nuts/ bearings were locked solid with the famous green gunge, and now freed up and runs superbly , what I do find odd is that I have a number of other 56’s and 50’s which aren’t used that often and none have suffered the same way. I have another with a broken coupling mount has anyone any experience in replacing the part ? I assume it is mounted to the chassis as opposed to any part of the bogie. Same problem here. i used a screw to get it back in.. i use it as a front runner so might have actually taken it back out.. i cant remember TBH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 Ok done now.......it reasonably easy to do and you can get this part with spring as a spare ( x9784) ive take the opportunity to scrape the contacts for the light strip to see if the dirt is preventing the light from working but I’ll test the lights before I seat the body back on to see if it how the contact strips are sitting that’s the problem. Anybody going down the stripping the worm screw I would recommend that you completely disassemble the whole unit and careful to fit the washer next to the worm before easing the square nut back on. Here’s the photo’s for the coupling B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 I found it easier to hook the spring while the v section up and then lower it once the spring was hooked. I then lined up the v with the hole that locates the buffer beam part from 56 013......This parts not on the sound fitted coal 56 which I’m try to swap the body from. It pretty straight forward really. Now for the pub rewiring just hope I can remember which wire goes where....note to self take photos before disassembly next time..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 Hopefully that helps you B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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