BNSF route limits

[Marmight]

A quick question...How far to the North East would a BNSF locomotive be seen? Do they ever get further east past Buffalo or into Vermont for example? I’ve seen their track maps, but other companies seem to get well beyond their home territories.

Cheers

 

Martin

 

 

[Johann Marsbar]

I'm sure I've seen photos of BNSF locos on the line that runs down the west shore of the Hudson River, though they aren't that common. Think you would be pushing it for any getting east of there though.

 

I managed to photograph a UP loco at Bound Brook, NJ, in 2017, so the "Western" roads do get over to the East Coast!

 

 

Have got this going away shot of a BNSF loco in Emmaus, PA, in 2014 as well...

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Johann Marsbar
added photo

[mdvle]

2 hours ago, Marmight said:

A quick question...How far to the North East would a BNSF locomotive be seen? Do they ever get further east past Buffalo or into Vermont for example? I’ve seen their track maps, but other companies seem to get well beyond their home territories.

 

Locos can frequently leave their home railroad for a variety of reasons, most common being another railroad being short of power and leasing surplus power from other railroads.

 

As for BNSF specifically, here is a picture of one which has crossed the border and is operating a CP train in the Toronto area - http://www.railpictures.ca/upload/foreign-power-leaders-on-the-cp-north-toronto-sub-have-been-a-relatively-common-thing-for-the-last-while-now-however-probably-95-of-that-are-up-leaders-bnsf-leaders-are-rare-however-when-they-are

 

Best way to try and find out is to go to https://railpictures.net/ and use their search function - select BNSF as railway as just go through the various states - a quick look found photos from New York and Massachusetts and yes even Vermont.

 

[dave1905]

In the US railroads have run through power agreements that provide for trains to operate from one railroad to another railroad without having to change power consists at the interchange point.  For example the UP, KCS and NS ran an intermodal train from Atlanta to Los Angeles across all three railroads using the same set of power.  The BNSF runs coal trains from Wyoming to states on the eastern seaboard using BNSF power.

 

The way the power is "paid for" is something called horsepower hours (hphrs), more or less the horsepower of the engine multiplied by the number of hours the engine is on the other railroad.  If the BNSF interchanges the NS a C-40-8 4000 hp engine to the NS at 100am Monday  and the NS interchanges it back to the BNSF at 500am Friday, the NS would have had the engine for 100 hours.  The NS would owe the BNSF 100 x 4000 = 400,000 hphrs for using the engine.  Typically the hphrs between railroads run in the millions of hphrs.  If the NS runs a train to the BNSF with one of its engines on the train, then the BNSF would owe hphrs to the NS and the two moves would offset each other.  Rarely do they ever balance so at some point one or the other railroad owes the other hphrs.  In that case the railroad that owes the hphrs will interchange a few engines to the other road to "pay back" hphrs.  If the BNSF owes the NS 10 million hphrs, they might let the NS use 5 C40-8's for 3 weeks (5 eng x 4000 hp x 21 days x 24 hrs/day = 10,080,000 hphrs).

 

To answer the original question, if the BNSF gives the NS an engine to pay back hphrs, it can be anyplace the NS runs, plus the NS could put it on a train that is a run through to a third railroad so it could be on another railroad (although that makes the accounting a little more cumbersome).

[Johann Marsbar]

Thinking about it, I'm sure there has been a BNSF loco in the consist of a train going through Palmer en route to Worcester, MA, within the past month.

[Marmight]

3 hours ago, dave1905 said:

In the US railroads have run through power agreements that provide for trains to operate from one railroad to another railroad without having to change power consists at the interchange point.  For example the UP, KCS and NS ran an intermodal train from Atlanta to Los Angeles across all three railroads using the same set of power.  The BNSF runs coal trains from Wyoming to states on the eastern seaboard using BNSF power.

 

The way the power is "paid for" is something called horsepower hours (hphrs), more or less the horsepower of the engine multiplied by the number of hours the engine is on the other railroad.  If the BNSF interchanges the NS a C-40-8 4000 hp engine to the NS at 100am Monday  and the NS interchanges it back to the BNSF at 500am Friday, the NS would have had the engine for 100 hours.  The NS would owe the BNSF 100 x 4000 = 400,000 hphrs for using the engine.  Typically the hphrs between railroads run in the millions of hphrs.  If the NS runs a train to the BNSF with one of its engines on the train, then the BNSF would owe hphrs to the NS and the two moves would offset each other.  Rarely do they ever balance so at some point one or the other railroad owes the other hphrs.  In that case the railroad that owes the hphrs will interchange a few engines to the other road to "pay back" hphrs.  If the BNSF owes the NS 10 million hphrs, they might let the NS use 5 C40-8's for 3 weeks (5 eng x 4000 hp x 21 days x 24 hrs/day = 10,080,000 hphrs).

 

To answer the original question, if the BNSF gives the NS an engine to pay back hphrs, it can be anyplace the NS runs, plus the NS could put it on a train that is a run through to a third railroad so it could be on another railroad (although that makes the accounting a little more cumbersome).

Brilliant explanation Dave, thank you very much.

[DelawareAndHudson]

A quick googley search on "BNSF locomotive + Ayer Massachusetts" turned up this:

 

BNSF SD70MAC leading an westbound empty oil/ethanol train 

https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=438550&nseq=153

 

Here's a shot of a pair of BNSF locomotives passing an MBTA train at Ayer.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/52139136@N04/7000961549/

 

 

Here's some video of BNSF power working the wye at Ayer

https://youtu.be/lX5LQjfHVFE

 

BNSF power on a unit grain train at Ayer.  

https://flic.kr/p/owCSHF

 

 

Now why did I choose Ayer, Massachusetts?  Well, I know that there is a large flour mill located at Ayer that receives unit grain trains of wheat that originate on the BNSF system and come east from Chicago to Rotterdam Junction on CSX before being handed off to Pan Am Southern.  Additionally, Norfolk Southern runs daily trains to/from the intermodal and auto yard at Ayer.  From time to time, foreign power from BNSF, CN, UP, or KCS winds up in Ayer on these NS trains.  

 

BNSF power in Vermont?  Less likely.  BNSF power in New Hampshire or Maine?  Mmmmmmm.....might be possible but not highly likely.  Ayer Mass on Pan Am or Worcester Mass on CSX would typically be the furthest east you'd catch BNSF power.  Not saying it's impossible that it would go further east, just not as likely.

 

Jason C

Indiana

[dave1905]

Bangor , Maine :  

[dave1905]

How about New Brunswick, Canada?  Any further east and the engine will need floaties (from Railpictures.Ca) :

 

[pH]

On 16/03/2021 at 14:17, mdvle said:

Best way to try and find out is to go to https://railpictures.net/ and use their search function - select BNSF as railway as just go through the various states - a quick look found photos from New York and Massachusetts and yes even Vermont.

 

As mdvle says, searching Railpictures for “BNSF Railway” and “USA - Vermont” (from the appropriate dropdown lists) will get you three pictures. Not too recent, though - they’re from 2008/10/12.

[Johann Marsbar]

Just to update this one BNSF #8040 is currently in Massachusetts as it worked as a trailing loco on a Grain train from Cicero, IL, to Worcester, MA . It passed the Palmer, MA, Railcam at 02.35 local time. Surprised they left it on the train, as the other locos were replaced with CSX ones, so they must have been short of power at Selkirk yesterday evening!

[Marmight]

I watch the Palmer web cam quite often. It’s a fascinating set up and you’re never quite sure what is going to turn up.

Thanks for the reply.

[Johann Marsbar]

Bit of an update to this one......

 

Screenshot (not a lot of light though) from Greenville Jn in Maine a couple of days ago - CP Train 142 to Saint John, NB - of a BNSF loco still in "Warbonnet" colours and lettered "Santa Fe", which we think was #577....

 

 

There was a BNSF liveried one on the train yesterday as well, but it was dark by the time it passed the camera!

 

 

[Johann Marsbar]

BNSF #8087 through Greenville Jn, Maine today....

 

 

 

coupled to the CP Naval liveried loco as well.....

 

[Johann Marsbar]

BNSF #8087 was back in Maine again today!