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Tartan Arrow CCTs and BGs


lather
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I've been looking for information about the Tartan Arrow liveried CCTs and BGs, specifically what brakes they were fitted with, but can't find anything anywhere.

 

I know that, normally, CCTs were vacuum-fitted, and haven't found any references to any of them being air- or dual-braked. However, on the Tartan Arrow services, they were running with Freightliner flats which, with the exception of the few modified as FGBs for the mixed services in Scotland, were all air-braked only.

 

The Tartan Arrow was a class 4 service (although the 7/10/68 to 4/5/69 London to Wellingborough WTT I have gives the headcode as 3S47 down and 3M47 up...), which meant that the brakes had to be active on all vehicles. For that to happen, either the Freightliner flats needed to have a vacuum through-pipe in addition to their air-brakes (making them FFBs and FGBs), or the CCTs and BG needed to be either air-or dual-braked.

 

As the aforementioned WTT lists the 3S47 Freightliner to Glasgow Bridgeton and 3M47 Freightliner from Glasgow Bridgeton "Tartan Arrow" services as air-braked company trains, it would seem to indicate that the vans were all air- or dual-braked. Can anyone confirm that?

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Known 'Tartan Arrow' liveried CCT vans included:-

94151, 94170, 94172, 94177, 94196, 94212, 94229, 94246, 94290, 94304, 94371, 94384, 94418, 94454, 94711, 94772, 94808, 94845, 94868, 94872, 94911.

.

There may be some information on the fitting of air brakes in the R.O. for the 1960s / 1970s, I'll have a quick flick thro'

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Brian R

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I believe they were dual braked, some of the CCT's have survived into preservation fortuitously, and pictures show the pipoework on the buffer beam.

Just for clarification too, the bogie vans were the ex LMS style, and I've often wondered if there is a correlation between the vans used in the early days of Freightliners and Tartan Arrow vans, as both would need to be air brake fitted.

 

Mike.

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Hi Lather,

 

The flat wagons were not the FGA-FFA type but may have been the vacuum braked bogie wagons previously used for the Condor service that was discontinued after the introduction of Freightliner trains. The below photograph suggests a wagon of around fifty feet in length as it has a 30' and a 20' box mounted upon it. The larger diameter wheels and the wagon's  higher sole bar level may be the reason for the special shouldered boxes also.

 

Im1966EnV222-p761c.jpg.07ce091432f11e94d42b8811c09434ef.jpg

 

IMG.jpg.90dbfcb96f528e0dbdf5b5ee0ea1ae38.jpg

 

Here is a link to the tye of bogie wagon used by the Condor service and it looks very similar to the wagons in the above photograph.

 

http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/10134.htm

 

Gibbo.

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In the 1976 edition of 'The Coaching Stock of British Railways' by the RCTS, all CCT's are listed as vacuum braked & steam piped, including those listed above by br2975 (with the exception of 94196 - not listed, presumably withdrawn). None at that time were shown as dual or air braked.

 

John

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1 hour ago, Downsman John said:

In the 1976 edition of 'The Coaching Stock of British Railways' by the RCTS, all CCT's are listed as vacuum braked & steam piped, including those listed above by br2975 (with the exception of 94196 - not listed, presumably withdrawn). None at that time were shown as dual or air braked.

 

John

 

ISTR the dual braked ones got snapped up by the various engineering etc departments quite early on, that maybe is the reason they weren't still in capital stock.

 

Mike.

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  • 8 months later...
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On 21/03/2021 at 18:11, Downsman John said:

In the 1976 edition of 'The Coaching Stock of British Railways' by the RCTS, all CCT's are listed as vacuum braked & steam piped, including those listed above by br2975 (with the exception of 94196 - not listed, presumably withdrawn). None at that time were shown as dual or air braked.

 

John

 

I have replied to a posting on another forum (WNXX) which was querying the Tarton Arrow vehicles. I turned to David Larkin's wonderful publications and found photos of M94170 and M94229 with two pipe air connections on their buffer beams.  This suggests that at least two of the Tartan Arrow vans, and probably all, were modified with dual brakes to work with air braked container flats.  

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On 18/03/2021 at 07:24, br2975 said:

Known 'Tartan Arrow' liveried CCT vans included:-

94151, 94170, 94172, 94177, 94196, 94212, 94229, 94246, 94290, 94304, 94371, 94384, 94418, 94454, 94711, 94772, 94808, 94845, 94868, 94872, 94911.

 

On 21/03/2021 at 18:11, Downsman John said:

In the 1976 edition of 'The Coaching Stock of British Railways' by the RCTS, all CCT's are listed as vacuum braked & steam piped, including those listed above by br2975 (with the exception of 94196 - not listed, presumably withdrawn). None at that time were shown as dual or air braked.

According to the 1974 edition of 'The Coaching Stock of British Railways' by the RCTS, 94711 was dual brake fitted, the only CCT to be so noted.

 

Here's a photo of CCT M94229 from 1972 in Tartan Arrow livery:

img20221217_17100327_resize.jpg.180f4873e4d0e29045eabeed13b0d256.jpg

 

Ian

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  • 7 months later...

I’m very much hoping to model a typical ‘Tartan Arrow’ train during its latter years, & would love to know rake configuration so that I can acquire the correct quantity for THE BUFFERS exhibition layout here in Canada hopefully in time for the 2024 GREAT BRITISH TRAIN SHOW in Brampton.

 

So could anyone out there please describe the usual locomotive classes, quantity of CCTs, & ex-LMS BGs, etc.in their order from top to tail if at all at all possible?

 

many thanks!

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I'll put this here, as I've just come accross it.

 

The Tartan Arrow CCTs fitted with air brakes were 94151/72/97, 94212/29/46, 94384, 94454, 94772, 94845/72 (11). From the list quoted above all carried Tartan Arrow livery except 94197.

 

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On 22/07/2023 at 15:04, BRShortlandsStation said:

I’m very much hoping to model a typical ‘Tartan Arrow’ train during its latter years, & would love to know rake configuration so that I can acquire the correct quantity for THE BUFFERS exhibition layout here in Canada hopefully in time for the 2024 GREAT BRITISH TRAIN SHOW in Brampton.

 

So could anyone out there please describe the usual locomotive classes, quantity of CCTs, & ex-LMS BGs, etc.in their order from top to tail if at all at all possible?

 

many thanks!

 

Did you ever find out what the typical consist for this would be? I recently picked up a couple of CCTs and an ex-LMS BG and would be interested to know what else I'd need to make up a prototypical train!

 

Cheers,

Sean 

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On 21/11/2023 at 17:54, stovepipe said:

I'll put this here, as I've just come accross it.

 

The Tartan Arrow CCTs fitted with air brakes were 94151/72/97, 94212/29/46, 94384, 94454, 94772, 94845/72 (11). From the list quoted above all carried Tartan Arrow livery except 94197.

 

There were 23 CCTs and 4 LMS BGs that were dual braked that would have worked the Tartan Arrow services not all in Tartan Arrow livery.

 

CCTs numbers 94151,70/1/27, 94212/29/46/90, 94304/71/84, 94418/52/4, 94711/3/72, 94808/45/67/8/72, 94911.

 

BGs 31368/82/9, 31409.

 

Al Taylor

 

 

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14 hours ago, 45125 said:

There were 23 CCTs and 4 LMS BGs that were dual braked that would have worked the Tartan Arrow services not all in Tartan Arrow livery.

 

CCTs numbers 94151,70/1/27, 94212/29/46/90, 94304/71/84, 94418/52/4, 94711/3/72, 94808/45/67/8/72, 94911.

 

BGs 31368/82/9, 31409.

 

Al Taylor

 

 

 

My list was from a report in the Railway Observer, detailing which vehicles were dual braked and in Tartan Arrow livery - with the one exception. According to the RCTS coaching stock book, there's a typo in your list the 23 CCTs were 94151/70/2/7, 94212/29/46/90, 94304/71/84, 94418/52/4, 94711/3/72, 94808/45/67/8/72, 94911.

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3 hours ago, stovepipe said:

 

My list was from a report in the Railway Observer, detailing which vehicles were dual braked and in Tartan Arrow livery - with the one exception. According to the RCTS coaching stock book, there's a typo in your list the 23 CCTs were 94151/70/2/7, 94212/29/46/90, 94304/71/84, 94418/52/4, 94711/3/72, 94808/45/67/8/72, 94911.

That's okay it was just a typo. Most of those ended up as modified with chains after use on Tartan Arrow work, all bar one appear to have reverted to vac braking, the one that remained dual braked (94711) by 1976 had become vac braked when fitted with chains.

 

All the BG(B) by 74 had all become vac only and according to the RCTS list by 1976 some had the gangways refitted.

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I've re-checked my copies of 'Jane's Freight Containers' and Tartan Arrow appears in the 1970-71 and 1971-72 editions.

The relevant content is the same in both editions, and the same that I posted in this thread in December 2021 before all the pixels vanished into a black hole.

The two images show the London terminal and are mostly focused on the containers, flat wagons and crane (there's quite a variety of containers). One image shows a long train of at least 7 FFA/FGA and beyond in the far distance a rake of vans is just discernable. So probably not much more help to this post.

Mol

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I found my old scan of the Tartan Arrow containers image, so I'll re-post it in case people are interested.

Tartan_Arrow.jpg.7906ddf8b31b076a31cd2002957e79bd.jpg

One thing it does illustrate (in conjunction with the pics above) is the wide variety of Tartan Arrow containers, various different lengths, shapes, lettering styles etc. The chamfered-corner boxes seem to be mostly 30' long, ISO-compatible boxes in both 20' and 30' are visible, but according to the fleet list they also had 10' versions.

Also, note the 30' ISO being lifted from the bottom corners, using a crane spreader that looks like it might be able to lift a 20' ISO directly?

 

So for the OP, you need a set of FFA/FGA with a right old mix of boxes!

 

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