Fat Controller Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Just now, John M Upton said: Did I read correctly somewhere that the Heathrow Express stock is heading for the cutters torch as well? Yes, though it's been shredded, rather than torched, at Sims' yard in Newport Docks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2021 On 20/03/2021 at 14:41, John M Upton said: A template? What on Earth do they need a template for to scrap a loco? Just a gas axe and a grabber is all that is needed. So they can work out the most economical / safe way of disassembly / cutting. Even though there is no asbestos there will be certain other items which will need to be separated as 'hazardous waste' (hint, why do you think we are no longer allowed to chuck small home appliances like electric toothbrushes and power adapters in with the general waste?) Some of the items may be able to be sold back to the railway industry - but not if you put a gas axe through them. Even if you are cutting them up then there are savings to be made - a few carefully made cuts versus lots of random ones will mean less gas gets used for the same result. 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted March 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Fat Controller said: Yes, though it's been shredded, rather than torched, at Sims' yard in Newport Docks. They were battered, non-standard, and missing obligatory equipment which meant they were not permitted to travel on any other route. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted March 22, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Fat Controller said: Yes, though it's been shredded, rather than torched, at Sims' yard in Newport Docks. And one unit shredded at Sims in Peterborough, arriving by road. Edited March 22, 2021 by jools1959 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyfour fiftyfour Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 7 hours ago, Bucoops said: They were battered, non-standard, and missing obligatory equipment which meant they were not permitted to travel on any other route. If the industry cannot work out how to fit TPWS to a mid-life unit that is identical to 16 other units in traffic elsewhere then it's time to pull down the shutters and close up for good! And the HEX work was hardly demanding, especially when compared to Aire Valley. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 97406 Posted March 23, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2021 Gosh it makes you feel old! I remember them being built in Crewe works alongside the then 87/2s. Mind you they lasted longer in service than the Deltics or most of the EE Type 4 fleet, so it just shows the difference in perception of the longevity of locos built before you were born compared to ones that were built when you were around to see them being built! 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizz Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Class 91s are a relatively small fleet, so likely to be classed as non standard by ROSCOs. Cut them up and or ship them abroad and it has the added advantage of protecting the TOCs (GWR for example) from the threat of them being reused by the dreaded ‘Open Access Operator’. Especially as you could then find the travelling public prefer them to, oh just picking a train at random, the brand new 800s for example....how embarrassing would that be for the DfT and Co.... Also get rid of them and we take another step closer to the UK being a unit only passenger railway. Although I do accept that 91s n MK4s were almost that, as they ran in fixed type formations etc. Sad to see them go, but just think how great their replacements are!!! 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 6 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said: If the industry cannot work out how to fit TPWS to a mid-life unit that is identical to 16 other units in traffic elsewhere then it's time to pull down the shutters and close up for good! And the HEX work was hardly demanding, especially when compared to Aire Valley. They were owned by BAA rather than a ROSCO. Why would BAA source & pay for storage pending any future use in several years time? They were reportedly suffering severe corrosion and structural fatigue (the class 333s do too and are needing very expensive repairs). There is a surplus of modern EMU in better condition with 350s, 365s,, 379s and 458s going off lease soon. 313s, 314s, 315s, 317s, 321s already heading straight from service to the scrap man, 455s likely to follow The 360/2 Hex Connect units have been snapped up by Orion for logistics use. 4 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balders Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 10 hours ago, jools1959 said: And one unit shredded at Sims in Peterborough, arriving by road. Is it just me, but does "shredding" seem like an awful way for anything to go?! I realise it's the cost effective way of reducing metal to it's base constitution for recycling but, just, *shudder* No-one wanted Buzz Lightyear to get shredded in Toy Story 3! Regards Guy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Grizz said: Sad to see them go, but just think how great their replacements are grate!!! Slight amendment to make it more accurate. 2 3 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 hours ago, black and decker boy said: They were reportedly suffering severe corrosion and structural fatigue (the class 333s do too and are needing very expensive repairs). So they never were much good, eh? Should have bought something from Derby or York instead. 3 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyfour fiftyfour Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, BernardTPM said: So they never were much good, eh? Should have bought something from Derby or York instead. York had shut by then and the quality of what Derby was churning out at the time was variable, to put it politely (see any early Class 170 for details!). Never knew the 333's were in a state, ironically they are pretty nice units to travel on. I guess the point about the surplus 350 and 379 does kill them stone dead, does feel wasteful to be scrapping stuff that we now regard as mid-life based on 30-40 year stock lifespans we expect these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyfour fiftyfour Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Grizz said: Class 91s are a relatively small fleet, so likely to be classed as non standard by ROSCOs. Cut them up and or ship them abroad and it has the added advantage of protecting the TOCs (GWR for example) from the threat of them being reused by the dreaded ‘Open Access Operator’. Especially as you could then find the travelling public prefer them to, oh just picking a train at random, the brand new 800s for example....how embarrassing would that be for the DfT and Co.... Also get rid of them and we take another step closer to the UK being a unit only passenger railway. Although I do accept that 91s n MK4s were almost that, as they ran in fixed type formations etc. Sad to see them go, but just think how great their replacements are!!! The ROSCOs have no interest at all in protecting TOC revenue flows, they are motivated only by maximising return from their asset. Even if it were true the Open Access business model was slaughtered by Covid. Don't forget that the 91's were VERY cheap and nasty, and it took a total rebuild to make them anywhere near OK. Now they suffer badly from woefully poor acceleration when compared to modern distributed power kit, hence their rejection from Euston to Blackpool open access. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 57 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said: York had shut by then and the quality of what Derby was churning out at the time was variable, to put it politely (see any early Class 170 for details!). I remember getting in an early Central Trains class 170, and looking up at the ceiling panels - you could still see the pencil marks where they'd drilled the screw holes. Including the unused holes in the wrong places... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 3 hours ago, BernardTPM said: So they never were much good, eh? Should have bought something from Derby or York instead. The unrefurbished 333s were still top drawer inside, sturdy comfy seats which didn't fall apat and stab you in the leg, and no loose panels flapping about. The several times refurbished 321/322s on the other hand looked like someone had already started scrapping them - bloody awful things inside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted March 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2021 I seem to remember that when the 170s were first introduced they leaked badly. Was that because of the screw holes!?! Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 5 hours ago, balders said: Is it just me, but does "shredding" seem like an awful way for anything to go?! I realise it's the cost effective way of reducing metal to it's base constitution for recycling but, just, *shudder* No-one wanted Buzz Lightyear to get shredded in Toy Story 3! Regards Guy The steel industry specify shredded scrap for their electric-arc furnaces. Indeed, smaller scrapyards may bale cars etc, then sell on to people like Sims who will shred the bales. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
25901 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 7 hours ago, balders said: Is it just me, but does "shredding" seem like an awful way for anything to go?! I realise it's the cost effective way of reducing metal to it's base constitution for recycling but, just, *shudder* I take it then you'll have not liked the "incinerator" method at Mayer Parry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted March 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2021 On 19/03/2021 at 11:21, pete_mcfarlane said: It's only 5 minutes (OK, about 33 years) since I saw the 91s pulling test trains past my house over the newly electrified ECML. Anyone else remember this documentary on their gestation: Oh dear . I'm now officially old ! I remember that Equinox program , in fact had it on VHS for years . There was another program at the time - was it Railwatch ? Seem to recall the BBC visiting BR on a daily basis to see the problems of day to day running . Was it Mike Smith that introduced it ? Anyway much was made of HSTs running on ECML and how they were being really used , sometime with a fitter travelling to correct issues . The last program was about the new 91s that were replacing them with 91001 emerging from Bounds Green . God I feel old! 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I'll just leave this here... 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 7 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said: ......... the 333's were .......... pretty nice units to travel on. ... I think I only had to travel on the things once or maybe twice ( and maybe another time between terminals ) .... all I can remember is the interminable adverts - but my wallet still reminds me that the Piccadilly Line would have been a LOT cheaper ! .... and it WOULD have got me to CENTRAL London ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyfour fiftyfour Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 47 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: I think I only had to travel on the things once or maybe twice ( and maybe another time between terminals ) .... all I can remember is the interminable adverts - but my wallet still reminds me that the Piccadilly Line would have been a LOT cheaper ! .... and it WOULD have got me to CENTRAL London ! 332's were the HEX units that took you from Heathrow to outer West London for a sky high fee, the 333's trundle around Leeds, Ilkley, Skipton and Bradford. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyfour fiftyfour Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Legend said: Oh dear . I'm now officially old ! I remember that Equinox program , in fact had it on VHS for years . There was another program at the time - was it Railwatch ? Seem to recall the BBC visiting BR on a daily basis to see the problems of day to day running . Was it Mike Smith that introduced it ? Anyway much was made of HSTs running on ECML and how they were being really used , sometime with a fitter travelling to correct issues . The last program was about the new 91s that were replacing them with 91001 emerging from Bounds Green . God I feel old! And one of the presenters asked them about going from a train with two locos able to limp forward if one loco failed to a train with one loco ergo no movement at all if that burst. They tried to hold the Class 91 back until the Friday but it was visible passing going the other way on a test train comprised of blue/grey SLE/SLEP from the 43108 can ride on 1S16, and pointed out by the traincrew on same! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said: I think I only had to travel on the things once or maybe twice ( and maybe another time between terminals ) .... all I can remember is the interminable adverts - but my wallet still reminds me that the Piccadilly Line would have been a LOT cheaper ! .... and it WOULD have got me to CENTRAL London ! It was definitely a case of Piccadilly line if you are paying. Heathrow Express if your employer is paying. 1 hour ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said: They tried to hold the Class 91 back until the Friday but it was visible passing going the other way on a test train comprised of blue/grey SLE/SLEP from the 43108 can ride on 1S16, and pointed out by the traincrew on same! I remember seeing that many times, with one of the buffer fitted HST power cars on the other end. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balders Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 6 hours ago, 25901 said: I take it then you'll have not liked the "incinerator" method at Mayer Parry It all looked a bit grim when it rolled out.......apocalyptic. Regards Guy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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