Jump to content

First Class 91 goes for the chop


Recommended Posts

Can we have a new railway - NO

 

builds a gas turbine tilting train

 

Can we have a new railway - NO

 

builds a HST

 

Can we have a new railway - NO

 

builds a prototype electric tilting train and a fleet of diesel high speed trains

 

Can we have a new railway - Oh go on then, just to bypass Selby but nothing on that big long west coast oh no, just some more class 87s, oh and you need to put a driving carriage on the end of the trains.

 

Can we have a new railway - No

 

Can we upgrade the existing one to 140 running with all singing and dancing signals - Yes as long as you use tilting trains like the ones we cancelled back in the 80s.

 

Italian tilting trains ordered and delivered

 

Can we have our signalling please - NO, we're going to build a new railway instead, we've given it a lot of thought (40 years) and we think a new railway will sort this.

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

The only exception to this is Coventry / Birmingham / Rugby to London but the number of trains needed to provide such a service would be tiny. As such when the Pendalinos come up for renewal then it will most likely be with a non tilting replacement - probably based on the IET platform.

With minor tweaks to the infrastructure, alterations to Cant, and maybe platforms towards the London end, I think it’s very reasonable for the PSR to be raised to 125. There will be a handful of locations that it’s not possible, Weedon for instance, but the impact would be minor. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can still forsee HS2 being cancelled or at least very severely curtailed at some point though.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

I can still forsee HS2 being cancelled or at least very severely curtailed at some point though.

Phase 1 is most unlikely to be cancelled, too much work now completed, too much underway (the TBMs start the Chiltern tunnel imminently), too many people now employed.

 

Phase 2a now has royal assent and contracts have already been signed with more to follow over the summer

 

Phase 2b seems intrinsically linked to NPR and levelling up / “Build Back Better” so politically seems as secure as it can be for now.

 

let’s remember that HS2 isn’t a bill for payment today but spread over the next 19 years of build & commissioning.

  • Agree 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Ncarter2 said:

With minor tweaks to the infrastructure, alterations to Cant, and maybe platforms towards the London end, I think it’s very reasonable for the PSR to be raised to 125. There will be a handful of locations that it’s not possible, Weedon for instance, but the impact would be minor. 

They probably could do, but I very much doubt they would be allowed to spend any money on the "classic" WCML as the budget will have been sunk on HS2 and the attitude will be that we don't need two quick routes from Euston to the Midlands. Not quite a "concorde" moment but I think we currently have the fastest ever London-Rugby and London-Coventry trains and will never again have sub 60 minute runs on the latter.

 

Either way (and neatly landing back on the original topic) the Class 390's will have a 30 year plus service life, just like 91023/132 did. We have become conditioned to screwing more than 40 years out of our frontline InterCity stock because the HST was so good for so long leading to abnormally high expectations and vehicles surpassing the 10,000,000 mile mark.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

Phase 1 is most unlikely to be cancelled, too much work now completed, too much underway (the TBMs start the Chiltern tunnel imminently), too many people now employed.

 

Phase 2a now has royal assent and contracts have already been signed with more to follow over the summer

 

Phase 2b seems intrinsically linked to NPR and levelling up / “Build Back Better” so politically seems as secure as it can be for now.

 

let’s remember that HS2 isn’t a bill for payment today but spread over the next 19 years of build & commissioning.

Probably longer than that, if the government are covering spending on HS2 by the issue of Gilts; some can run for up to 20 years, or longer, before maturity; so nearer 40 years, I reckon!

 

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 26/03/2021 at 18:02, jools1959 said:


91119 was out of service with a blown transformer for best part of a year and returned in retro IC swallow livery.  I spoke to a traction inspector at Peterborough several years ago and he couldn’t wait for the Azuma’s because most of the 91’s were running with just 3 traction motors, affecting acceleration and time keeping.

 

Ah yes, that was the one I was thinking off. As I recall there was even some debate at the time as to whether it would be repaired or not, but when it was, it was that's the last spare transformer and it's curtains for the next one needing one.

 

It was quite common for some to time to get one on 3 motors. I recall often handing over to a relieving driver with the comment "another 3-legged donkey".

 

Another frequent problem potentially affecting timekeeping became the whining (or should I say screaming) gearboxes. It tended to occur when cruising at line speed, and was high-pitched and so distracting. On bad examples it became so loud that often drivers would reduce speed to quieten then down - usually by 10 / 15 mph sufficed. There was many complaints about the time some ran in such condition, as rectification required a works visit. The pitch and volume was such that control never disputed when we told them we were reducing speed.

  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 4
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
2 minutes ago, Flittersnoop said:

Seems a bit daft when the trains that replaced them are out of service for repairs...

Seeing as they'll have been stripped for useful spares, and in any case, who was to know that the 80x would get the issue they have, it's not surprising that these 4 are off to the great depot in the sky...

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MarkC said:

Seeing as they'll have been stripped for useful spares, and in any case, who was to know that the 80x would get the issue they have, it's not surprising that these 4 are off to the great depot in the sky...


As far as I’m aware, they were just been “switched off” and two headed to Sims with their nameplates still attached.

Edited by jools1959
Typo
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, jools1959 said:


As far as I’m aware, they were just been “switched off” and two headed to Sims with their nameplates still attached.

a comment has been made about the nameplates, apparently Eversholt forgot to take them off and have now lost them- if SIMS are tipped off they can make a few quid profit on those!

Link to post
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

a comment has been made about the nameplates, apparently Eversholt forgot to take them off and have now lost them- if SIMS are tipped off they can make a few quid profit on those!


I was told that Sims had to return them as Eversholt had nobody available to remove them before they left Doncaster.  Whatever is the truth, I’m pretty sure that they won’t be destroyed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Flittersnoop said:

Seems a bit daft when the trains that replaced them are out of service for repairs...

 

Not really

 

Please remember that quite a few Mk4s have also been scrapped so even if the 91s were retained there might not be enough coaching stock for them to haul anyway.

 

Note the disability regs now in force prohibit most Mk3s being used unless upgraded - which is why EMT took on ex LNER rakes and scrapped their own non compliant ones

Link to post
Share on other sites

How tricky is it to bring a 91 back to life after a cold storage? Do the systems just boot up first time?

I'm told the Networkers can need a bit of TLC if they are stabled off the juice for a weekend, to boot up their systems as a cold start.

From a book about Reddish depot,the  Woodhead 76 locos stored there were turn on and ready to go no matter how many months they had been switched off

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Pandora said:

How tricky is it to bring a 91 back to life after a cold storage? Do the systems just boot up first time?

I'm told the Networkers can need a bit of TLC if they are stabled off the juice for a weekend, to boot up their systems as a cold start.

From a book about Reddish depot,the  Woodhead 76 locos stored there were turn on and ready to go no matter how many months they had been switched off

 

The 76s didn't have fancy electronics / sensors / computers!

 

Although you would think that a 'cold start' shouldn't be that much of an issue, the reality is somewhat different.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, jools1959 said:


As far as I’m aware, they were just been “switched off” and two headed to Sims with their nameplates still attached.

I looked after the 13x 91s at Belmont for over a year. When they finally went for stripping only 3 still worked properly. They weren’t just “switched off” they’d been gradually deteriorating for a number of months.

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Yellowperil said:

I looked after the 13x 91s at Belmont for over a year. When they finally went for stripping only 3 still worked properly. They weren’t just “switched off” they’d been gradually deteriorating for a number of months.

Anyone know when the next delivery of 91's to Newport is scheduled?

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

The 76s didn't have fancy electronics / sensors / computers!

 

Although you would think that a 'cold start' shouldn't be that much of an issue, the reality is somewhat different.

 

 

I'm not surprised when it comes to that vintage of electronics. If the batteries have died and the whole thing has been de-energised then there's probably order that things have to be brought back online to avoid problems. I'd be shocked if newer trains (375s, 450s etc) have any similar problems, being a decade and several generations of computing newer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Pandora said:

How tricky is it to bring a 91 back to life after a cold storage? Do the systems just boot up first time?

I'm told the Networkers can need a bit of TLC if they are stabled off the juice for a weekend, to boot up their systems as a cold start.

From a book about Reddish depot,the  Woodhead 76 locos stored there were turn on and ready to go no matter how many months they had been switched off

Given their age, the only way to bring them back to life after storage was to put the pans up full stretch outside during a big electrical storm.

 

The locals were never pleased when the grounded bodies were raised, they'd arrive at the depot gates with pitchforks and sharp sticks.

  • Funny 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...