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Lima Class 37 & 47 upgrade


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Hi,

Firstly apologies if this has already been answered.

 

The question I have is that I have owned a couple of Lima locomotives (Class 37 & 47) for quite sometime and I came to the conclusion that I would try and upgrade them as so to replace the ringfield motors and I have been wondering whether I could use current Bachmann chassis’s to do this.

 

As far as I have worked out the easier option is to use ViTrains chassis’s and to just fit the old bodies. However I am trying to future proof and considering that spares for ViTrains are quite difficult to obtain I was wondering whether purchasing a Bachmann Class 37 & 47 would work.

 

Thanks very much.

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What i've done with a lima class 73 , I got a Hornby model  cheap  changed the body over . Then put the Hornby body on the lima chassis sold it on Ebay. That is the easy way Plus you get some cash back.  Some old Lima models i've fitted CD motors to, 

Edited by crompton 33
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I'd either go for the Hornby chassis option (be careful, make sure it is the right chassis not the old Hornby versions!!) as I find the mechanisms run well. They'll never be the same as Bachmann's centre motor, but for lots of people they're fine, especially if you're not hauling long heavy trains up gradients. And as said above, you can sell on the old chassis and new body on Ebay to recoup some of the cost. 

 

I've also used some remotor kits from Strathpeffer Junction which are a faily simple job to fit. I used them on a 156 but am pretty sure they are available for other types too. That also worked well, just needed some basic soldering skills.  

 

As you say, there's also the ViTrains option. I've done that with one of mine, but unless you use one of their Lima replacement chassis, a small amount of work is needed to provide a way of mounting the body on the chassis. It's certainly an improvement, but as you say probably not worth the hassle.

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15 hours ago, wasdavetheroad said:

Try fitting two power bogies for enough hauling power to pull your house wall down

Is that with or without traction tyres? I'd want to install all-wheel pickup at the same time.

 

Ian

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22 hours ago, steviesparx said:

The China made  'Limby' ( Hornby chassis using the Lima body ) 47 is also a direct swap - you could sell the new bodies ( and boxes ) on if you wanted to keep your Lima bodies....


Thanks, do the Bachmann Class 47 chassis’s work as I am wondering whether I can avoid the bogie based motors.

 

Thanks again.

Edited by CCarmichael
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7 minutes ago, CCarmichael said:


Thanks, do the Bachmann Class 47 chassis’s work as I am wondering whether I can avoid the bogie based motors.

 

Thanks again.

Depends how much work you want to do, but in short no. The Bachmann 47 chassis has the bufferbeam mounted on it whereas Lima mounted the bufferbeam on the body. You could do what I did for my class 31 and mount the drive train (in that case from a Mazak damaged Hornby central bogie version) into the Lima chassis but for the cost of getting the chassis from a Bachmann loco you might as well buy a complete Bachmann model and sell your Lima model to help fund the purchase. 

 

I have to say there are some great Lima loco bodies that with a bit of detailing can hold their own against today's offering's, the class 31 and 73 are 2 great examples but Lima's model of the 37 and 47 are showing their age and have many areas for improvement. However I can understand for sentimental reasons you might want to keep them in which case the modern Hornby motor bogies are the best bet.

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2 hours ago, wasdavetheroad said:

Not sure, I saw an online demo somewhere pitting a twin power bogie against the best central motor model. The twin power bogie loco happily won the tug of war, pulling the other loco backwards.

 

It might have been on here?

 

I suspect it still had its traction tyres:

 

F is the friction between wheels & rail, or tractive effort.

F = µR

R is effectively the weight of the loco & µ is the coefficient of friction, which depends on the combination of surfaces.

Unless the owner has packed their twin power bogie loco with weight (which may have been the case), it will be lighter than a cast chassis with a central motor.

Nickel Silver - Nickel Silver (rail & Bachmann wheels) will be very similar to Nickel Silver - Brass (or whatever Lima wheels are).

Rubber tyres on Nickel Silver will be much higher, which is why they were used.

 

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5 hours ago, 37114 said:

Depends how much work you want to do, but in short no. The Bachmann 47 chassis has the bufferbeam mounted on it whereas Lima mounted the bufferbeam on the body. You could do what I did for my class 31 and mount the drive train (in that case from a Mazak damaged Hornby central bogie version) into the Lima chassis but for the cost of getting the chassis from a Bachmann loco you might as well buy a complete Bachmann model and sell your Lima model to help fund the purchase. 

 

I have to say there are some great Lima loco bodies that with a bit of detailing can hold their own against today's offering's, the class 31 and 73 are 2 great examples but Lima's model of the 37 and 47 are showing their age and have many areas for improvement. However I can understand for sentimental reasons you might want to keep them in which case the modern Hornby m37114otor bogies are the best bet.

Thanks 37114. I have actually found a Bachmann Class 47 in RES livery that I am going to possibly purchase to replace my Lima one, which will keep the train pack complete

Edited by CCarmichael
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I'd second what both posters above said. To fit a Bachmann chassis would be a lot of work. Fitting the central motor and bogies into the existing chassis might be more practical. The example of a twin-motor-bogie loco pulling signficantly better than a central motor one must have had a lot of extra weight packed in as well as traction tyres. 

 

If you've found a suitable Bachmann one for a good price, then yes, it makes as much sense to do that as try and update the older one. 

 

In more general terms, rather than your specific example, I think sometimes people are quick to 'dis' motor bogies in favour of central motors, but forget that a motor bogie doesn't usually mean the juddery pancake that Lima and Hornby made. Those in my Hornby DMUs for example use a small can motor atop the bogie, and I can control them just as smoothly at a crawl as any central-motor fitted unit. 

 

That said, this thread has reminded me, I still have a DynaDrive conversion kit in the cupboard to fit into a Lima class 37 or 47... 

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Ive used Vitrains chassis on my 37s, Hornby Railroad on my 47s and Hornby class 66 motor bogies on my class 31’s.

 

Vitrains 37’s can be had cheaply, and will probably fall off a cliff later this year when Accurascales appears.

 

Hornby Railroad 47’s just because they were £30 a few years ago...

 

and Hornby class 66 bogies are cheap as chips right now..way under £20, all you need to do is make a cradle in the 31 chassis and a bit of cutting on the lima bogie to make it work... as the 66 is used also for 31,37,47 you could do those also... I would have done earlier, but i’d already done 37/47 first.

 

 

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The easiest way is to use the newer Hornby motor bogies , if you get the chassis as a spare, a doddle.

 

The other option that makes more work is to mount the bogies and motor onto the original chassis from a example that has suffered mazac rot. Done a few using Lima 47 with Heljan bogies/motors. And a few 31 with Hornby drives.

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I have just found this link about fitting a Hornby motor bogie to a Lima chassis. It is about EM gauge and a twin bogie fit but the method seems simple and can apply to 00 gauge as well.

 

This method is attractive to me as the Lima locos usually have cavernous bodies with lots of space inside for batteries if you have a garden railway BPRC (battery power radio control) solves your power collection problems or for those who prefer BPRC even indoors. I bought my Lima locos second hand when they were only about £30. 

 

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/project_lima31mods.html

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There is also the option of fitting Heljan bogies and motor into the Lima chassis. You can also replace the battery boxes too with Heljan versions. There are often Heljan spare parts listed on Ebay. I have done this to some of my models.

Plonking a Lima body onto a Bachmann chassis is not difficult. I have cut/filed off the Lima 47 bufferbeams and the bodies then sit nicely on the chassis, but I haven't yet figured out a way to secure them tightly.

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2 hours ago, vikingsmb said:

there is nothing wrong with the lima motors, as long as they are serviced properly they are fine

While I agree about good servicing will get a Lima motor operating to it's best performance, that is like saying in the 1900s  "I will stick with a horse rather than upgrade to a car as there is nothing wrong with a well cared for horse". At the time Lima was around their motors were comparable with the others on the market place eg the Hornby ringfield and whatever Mainline and Airfix were putting in their locos. Time has passed Lima motors by now and there are so many better options on the market. 

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On 25/03/2021 at 07:45, wasdavetheroad said:

I have just found this link about fitting a Hornby motor bogie to a Lima chassis. It is about EM gauge and a twin bogie fit but the method seems simple and can apply to 00 gauge as well.

 

This method is attractive to me as the Lima locos usually have cavernous bodies with lots of space inside for batteries if you have a garden railway BPRC (battery power radio control) solves your power collection problems or for those who prefer BPRC even indoors. I bought my Lima locos second hand when they were only about £30. 

 

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/project_lima31mods.html

Ive pretty much done the same, except I stayed with the motorised bogie end and used the original chassis hole, and 1mm plasticard.

 

I started using a 1mm card template scored and folded to fit, and a 5mm hole in the top. I then used that card outline to mark the plasticard as required.


The card though also worked fine, though you can only insert/remove the motor a half dozen times before the card frays.. but still it will hold it...afterall the bogies less that 50g.

Edited by adb968008
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On 28/03/2021 at 15:32, 37114 said:

While I agree about good servicing will get a Lima motor operating to it's best performance, that is like saying in the 1900s  "I will stick with a horse rather than upgrade to a car as there is nothing wrong with a well cared for horse". At the time Lima was around their motors were comparable with the others on the market place eg the Hornby ringfield and whatever Mainline and Airfix were putting in their locos. Time has passed Lima motors by now and there are so many better options on the market. 

 

They'll never match the quality of a newer model (with centre drive or modern motor bogie) but I find the strange thing with Lima is that some really will run great. I have a couple of 156s that it'd be pointless remotoring as they are smooth, slow, and reliable. Yet others which should be identical will stutter, judder and run indifferently depending on the day of the week or the direction of the wind.  Age, type, amount of use seems to have no bearing, it seems completely random which are the better ones.

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44 minutes ago, JDW said:

 

They'll never match the quality of a newer model (with centre drive or modern motor bogie) but I find the strange thing with Lima is that some really will run great. I have a couple of 156s that it'd be pointless remotoring as they are smooth, slow, and reliable. Yet others which should be identical will stutter, judder and run indifferently depending on the day of the week or the direction of the wind.  Age, type, amount of use seems to have no bearing, it seems completely random which are the better ones.

 

I can also agree as I have had some which are a delight to run where if someone says "Lima can never match the modern models out these days" I have to say "Yes they can" as if they have watched while I have tried a few of mine they would see what I mean. (What gets me is when people point blank refuse to admit that it is possible for Lima locos to run well). 

The key is perserverance and making minor adjustments just in the right places... 

An example is that I had bought a secondhand Lima class 09 which was not running at all well. I spent a lot of time carefully adjusting and cleaning and it then ran for several years like a dream! Then I used the chassis for fitting under a Smallbrook Studios Cadera kit, which needs significent work both to the kit and the chassis, and the thing does not run too well again, so I am going to need to spend time on it again. I believe if I can adjust the gear spring plate it should do the trick as often these either press too hard or rub etc. It requires patience to get it right, but when it is right, it runs well. 

 

I am wondering if the gears can be re-made out of metal? If this will make them even better?

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On 22/03/2021 at 15:37, wasdavetheroad said:

Or upgrade the Lima ringfield motor with a CD type.

 

Or buy the correct Hornby motor bogie spare and modify the Lima chassis so it fits

 

 

These run ultra smooth but they lack torque so they may struggle to pull anything other then a few coaches. Ideal for a loco depot type of layout but to me, a nice Lima diesel at the head of a 10 or 12 coach express running at speed is what they are all about. The lovely sound of the motors when one does this. There is nothing like it!

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I'm finding that a single CD motor copes with a 4-car class 156 set up a very slight gradient with no traction tyres, but anything more would be an ask. 

 

What always gets me with Lima motors is that the good ones run better with just an occasional wheel clean than the bad ones will run after I've stripped everything down, cleaned every wheel, pick up surface, etc...! 

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On 28/03/2021 at 15:32, 37114 said:

While I agree about good servicing will get a Lima motor operating to it's best performance, that is like saying in the 1900s  "I will stick with a horse rather than upgrade to a car as there is nothing wrong with a well cared for horse". At the time Lima was around their motors were comparable with the others on the market place eg the Hornby ringfield and whatever Mainline and Airfix were putting in their locos. Time has passed Lima motors by now and there are so many better options on the market. 

 

My take on this through practical experience is that Hornby Ringfield motors ran quieter but they were never as strong pullers as Lima pancake motors were. If a Hornby class 47 would manage 8 coaches, the Lima equivalent would manage 10 or more. 

This may seem more then many Lima diesels will pull but this is because their traction tyres go hard with age. If one has a good set of traction tyres and a rake of free running Lima Mk1's, they will pull 10 coaches. 

The only time I had a Hornby Ringfield model match a Lima Pancake model in regards to its pulling power was when I was testing all my locos to see what they would pull, and both these locos were the Hornby and Lima tender driven king class locos. These both pulled 45 wagons on the flat. (I used wagons in my test. Both were equal. Any more and they would slip and not be able to bring the train up to speed).

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