Lima Class 37 & 47 upgrade

[Mountain Goat]

33 minutes ago, JDW said:

I'm finding that a single CD motor copes with a 4-car class 156 set up a very slight gradient with no traction tyres, but anything more would be an ask. 

 

What always gets me with Lima motors is that the good ones run better with just an occasional wheel clean than the bad ones will run after I've stripped everything down, cleaned every wheel, pick up surface, etc...! 

 

For a DMU, the CD motors will be excellent. Ideal. But if one wanted it for something like a Western or a class 47 or a 37, then one could be dissapointed. 

 

Someone did mention somewhere once that there was a type of CD style motor available that had windings designed for torque? They are rare though. 

 

To the origional poster. If you have a Lima DMU and want to try a CD motor drive, try it on the DMU first as the DMU does not need to haul much. Test it pulling an ordinary rake of coaches to see if it is suitable for pulling more. If it is and you are happy with how much the motor can pull, then try a class 37 or 47 conversion.  

 

I say to try a DMU first simply because the motor will cope with a DMU as they are either 1, 2 or 3 car sets, so if the motors lack torque, it is not going to be an issue.

 

I do wish you success if you decide to try such a conversion.

 

I agree that in an ideal world, if one can buy Vi-Trains chassis at a reasonable price it is a good option to go for. 

 

If it is pulling power one wants, putting two motorbogies in one loco has been done before, but both need to be equally matched. I once tried two Ringfields mounted in a HST buffet car and it did not work because though they were the exact same motors, one pulled much faster then the other and so I had issues with the thing coming off the track. Had they moth been more equally matched it may have worked better. 

For experimenting, always buy the cheapest scrappiest locos as that way, if it does not work, one has not lost out. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Mountain Goat

[wasdavetheroad]

If you want to install two power bogies you need them speed matched within 10%. According to DCCwiki that or better is what you need for successful consisting so may be true for twin bogies.

 

For servicing a lima motor this video is useful

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=lima+motor+servicing&&view=detail&mid=745FC1D654CFE1FCBFDA745FC1D654CFE1FCBFDA&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dlima%2Bmotor%2Bservicing%26FORM%3DHDRSC3

[Fat Controller]

Has anyone contacted _VI-trains to see how many chassis you'd have to order for them to do a production run of either type?

 

[ISW]

On 30/03/2021 at 00:12, Mountain Goat said:

Someone did mention somewhere once that there was a type of CD style motor available that had windings designed for torque? They are rare though. 

 

To the origional poster. If you have a Lima DMU and want to try a CD motor drive, try it on the DMU first as the DMU does not need to haul much. Test it pulling an ordinary rake of coaches to see if it is suitable for pulling more.

I have a Mainline Class 56 to which I replaced the motor with a CD-ROM motor. As it's a 3-axle bogies the CD-ROM needed to be one of the thinner 10mm thick type. I converted it to DCC with a simple Hattons 8-pin chip. It'll pull 8 coaches up a 1in45 gradient without problems, although 11 coaches caused it to slip to a halt due to insufficient weight. So I'd say a CD-ROM motor is capable of good pulling power when on DCC. Just make sure the BEMF (back EMF, which causes the DCC chip to increase the current as the load increases) is turned 'on'.

 

Ian

[CCarmichael]

Thanks for all your suggestions. In the end I put a ViTrains chassis in the Class 37 & and the chassis from one of the Hornby Railroad Class 47 for my Res Publica locomotive.

 

For anyone else looking to do this for the Class 47, it is worth noting that the main glazing units also need to be switched out as Hornby has made adjustments to theirs to fit the bracket that the motor clips into.

 

Thanks again,

Charles

Edited April 3, 2021 by CCarmichael
missing information

[Mountain Goat]

On 03/04/2021 at 14:54, CCarmichael said:

Thanks for all your suggestions. In the end I put a ViTrains chassis in the Class 37 & and the chassis from one of the Hornby Railroad Class 47 for my Res Publica locomotive.

 

For anyone else looking to do this for the Class 47, it is worth noting that the main glazing units also need to be switched out as Hornby has made adjustments to theirs to fit the bracket that the motor clips into.

 

Thanks again,

Charles

 

Just out of interest, are the ViTrains class 37 chassis easily available new or was it obtained secondhand? I am out of touch with these things.

 

The CD drive to pull 8 coaches is promising especially up an incline, which is about the limit of a Lima motor, so if one can get one just like that one it is ideal! 

 

Has anyone ever replaced the gears with metal gears (Just out of curiosity).

[cypherman]

Hi,

You can get replacement motors and fittings from Straffpether Junction for quite a reasonable price. They are easy to swap and do make a real difference to the running.

[andyman7]

On 29/03/2021 at 23:07, JDW said:

 

They'll never match the quality of a newer model (with centre drive or modern motor bogie) but I find the strange thing with Lima is that some really will run great. I have a couple of 156s that it'd be pointless remotoring as they are smooth, slow, and reliable. Yet others which should be identical will stutter, judder and run indifferently depending on the day of the week or the direction of the wind.  Age, type, amount of use seems to have no bearing, it seems completely random which are the better ones.

 

On 30/03/2021 at 00:09, Mountain Goat said:

 

My take on this through practical experience is that Hornby Ringfield motors ran quieter but they were never as strong pullers as Lima pancake motors were. If a Hornby class 47 would manage 8 coaches, the Lima equivalent would manage 10 or more. 

This may seem more then many Lima diesels will pull but this is because their traction tyres go hard with age. If one has a good set of traction tyres and a rake of free running Lima Mk1's, they will pull 10 coaches. 

The only time I had a Hornby Ringfield model match a Lima Pancake model in regards to its pulling power was when I was testing all my locos to see what they would pull, and both these locos were the Hornby and Lima tender driven king class locos. These both pulled 45 wagons on the flat. (I used wagons in my test. Both were equal. Any more and they would slip and not be able to bring the train up to speed).

People's needs differ - if you have a big exhibition type layout/long trains, the old Ringfield/Pancake motors will struggle, and for DCC their characteristics and current draw are not ideal. But the sheer number of Ringfields that are discarded mean that for lighter use it's a real waste to write them off. The demand for later type Hornby Railroad chassis that can be dropped into Lima locos makes them relatively expensive - it's very unusual to get one for under £50 whereas the market is awash with RIngfield chassis locos at between £20-£30 and can be picked up for less - I have a pile of donor models picked up for under £20 each.

As long as the Ringfield mech is not badly worn, cleaning it properly, making sure the brushes are good and spring tension is correct, the main things that will improve running are extra pickups and extra weight. It's pretty straightforward to create pickups for the trailing bogies using brass strip soldered to a small piece of PCB glued to the central bogie casting. On Hornby models the interchangeable trailing/power bogie wheels mean that one or both traction tyred wheels can be swapped out to allow pickups on the power bogie. If Peter's Spares can come good and make non-traction tyred wheels for the Lima power bogies the same mod will be possible for those too. 
I find that I can make perfectly sweet running models that will potter round for occasional use without having to fork out each time for the latest type mechs, and it means potential to make lots of extra models with the leftover bits of other projects.