Third Sulzer variant announced by SLW - Class 25/1 to be made !

[sulzer71]

2 minutes ago, Alcanman said:

 

Here's one of them. 25229 at Eastfield , 5th May 1982.

Interesting , are the hinged grilles on the other side or was it a modification later in their life ?

[Swindon 123]

7 hours ago, sulzer71 said:

Interesting , are the hinged grilles on the other side or was it a modification later in their life ?

The hinged grills only were fitted on one side when a loco was dual braked. They were fitted on the side where the radiator grill was at the RH end when looking at the loco, see my photo of 25245 at Hereford in Feb 1980 below.

 

One problem with the modification was that there didn't seem to be a standard "hinge" fitting, as seen by comparing another of my photos of  25049 in Derby Works in April 1982.

 

 

Paul J.

 

PS. Having now looked more closely at my own photos, it appears that the hinge is on the LH side of the grill as you look at it, the prominent protrusions visible on the right hand edge of the grill the RH edge of the grill are catches, similar to those found on Class 45 nose grills, in the case of 25245 or metal strips bolted into the bodyside, in the case of 25049.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Swindon 123
Add info on dual braking and grill catches.

[Alcanman]

3 minutes ago, Swindon 123 said:

The hinged grills only were fitted on one side, that was the side where the radiator grill was at the RH end when looking at the loco, see my photo of 25245 at Hereford in Feb 1980 below.

 

One problem with the modification was that there didn't seem to be a standard "hinge" fitting, as seen by comparing another of my photos of  25049 in Derby Works in April 1982.

 

 

Paul J.

That is interesting. I wasn't aware of the grille hinges on some locos. Here's my photo of 25245 at Toton on 25.11.82 with the loco still retaining the grille hinges

[Halvarras]

8 hours ago, Swindon 123 said:

Of note in this batch is the fact that D5233-D5237, 25083-7 had the 2nd body style, but were boiler fitted and had boiler water tanks fitted.

 

 

And conversely, D5179-82, 25029-32 with the early body style were freight-only and not fitted with train heating boilers so had no water tanks (which tripped up Bachmann with D5182, perhaps they should have stuck to the catalogued D7581!)

[Mel_H]

On 26/03/2021 at 19:03, Alcanman said:

That is interesting. I wasn't aware of the grille hinges on some locos. Here's my photo of 25245 at Toton on 25.11.82 with the loco still retaining the grille hinges

 

I think it was only the locos converted to air brakes that had the hinged grills. Not sure why they were fitted though?

[Mel_H]

Another variation, which appeared to be totally random, is the shape of the cab roof and position/proximity of the rain strip under the headcode box.  I understand that a number of moulds were made for the fibreglass cab roofs and that they weren't all totally identical, hence the subtle differences.

 

And, that's before the optical illusions created when the yellow was extended to the rainstrips.

 

Also, in some overhaul pictures in works taken in the late '70s and early '80s, some locos appear to have had brand new cab roof (due to leaks?).

 

Extracts of 25245 and 25229 (above) show this...

 

 

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, Mel_H said:

Another variation, which appeared to be totally random, is the shape of the cab roof and position/proximity of the rain strip under the headcode box.  I understand that a number of moulds were made for the fibreglass cab roofs and that they weren't all totally identical, hence the subtle differences.

 

And, that's before the optical illusions created when the yellow was extended to the rainstrips.

 

Also, in some overhaul pictures in works taken in the late '70s and early '80s, some locos appear to have had brand new cab roof (due to leaks?).

 

Extracts of 25245 and 25229 (above) show this...

 

 

 

Interesting spot. There appears to be a variation in the depth of the lower edge of the headcode box frame, resulting in it overlapping the rainstrip more on 25245 than 25229.

[Krieghoff]

11 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

Interesting spot. There appears to be a variation in the depth of the lower edge of the headcode box frame, resulting in it overlapping the rainstrip more on 25245 than 25229.

You could be right there Neil. Camera angles apart both the top and bottom section seem to be slightly smaller on the top photo.

[Swindon 123]

There is also a variation to the length of the "wing boxes" for the horns. The early ones seem to have longer wings that later ones. See my photos of 25057 below,

 

but by the time you get to 25080 they are much shorter, see below.

 

And for a side by side comparison, here's a shot of 25285 alongside an unidentified class mate showing the difference.

 

I do not know the reason for the change.

 

Paul J.

[Davidjsmith]

19 hours ago, Mel_H said:

think it was only the locos converted to air brakes that had the hinged grills. Not sure why they were fitted though?

I believe it was to aid fitters getting parts & tools in & out of engine room as compressor was hard to get past in the engine room.

[russ p]

48 minutes ago, Swindon 123 said:

There is also a variation to the length of the "wing boxes" for the horns. The early ones seem to have longer wings that later ones. See my photos of 25057 below,

 

but by the time you get to 25080 they are much shorter, see below.

 

And for a side by side comparison, here's a shot of 25285 alongside an unidentified class mate showing the difference.

 

I do not know the reason for the change.

 

Paul J.

 

 

I think there are two different sorts of air horn too. I used to look after 057 and the horns on that were similar to 37 ones where others I've heard have more forty sounding ones like 24s 

[96701]

Differences could be down to having to make new moulds because the old ones may well have worn out and somebody took the opportunity to save on glass reinforced plastic.

[sulzer71]

These damn rats are such a minefield of detail differences , think I better wait until SLW announce what models they are doing exactly before I make decisions on which loco's I can model

[Roy Langridge]

15 hours ago, russ p said:

 

 

I think there are two different sorts of air horn too. I used to look after 057 and the horns on that were similar to 37 ones where others I've heard have more forty sounding ones like 24s 

 

Different air horns are quite common on locos (and units), especially those that have been about a few years as they can often be quite interchangeable and get swapped when failures occur.

Roy

[sulzer71]

15 hours ago, russ p said:

 

 

I think there are two different sorts of air horn too. I used to look after 057 and the horns on that were similar to 37 ones where others I've heard have more forty sounding ones like 24s 

If I'm not mistaken the 25/3 horn sounded different to the rest of the class

[cheesysmith]

The reason for the catches on the side grills (the hinges are on the inside, the catches are on the outside) was so the filters can be changed, as the air tanks prevented it being done from the inside when they were dual fitted.

 

 

[sulzer71]

17 minutes ago, cheesysmith said:

The reason for the catches on the side grills (the hinges are on the inside, the catches are on the outside) was so the filters can be changed, as the air tanks prevented it being done from the inside when they were dual fitted.

 

 

Makes you wonder why they didn't fit the air tanks under the body seen as most didn't have a water tank

[Swindon 123]

22 hours ago, Swindon 123 said:

There is also a variation to the length of the "wing boxes" for the horns. The early ones seem to have longer wings that later ones. See my photos of 25057 below,

 

but by the time you get to 25080 they are much shorter, see below.

 

And for a side by side comparison, here's a shot of 25285 alongside an unidentified class mate showing the difference.

 

I do not know the reason for the change.

 

Paul J.

 

Having done a bit more research into the headcode box "wing" lengths in my earlier post, it would appear that D7568-D7597, 25218-47 also had the longer wings when originally built, but as the class 25 cabs and cab roofs quite often got swapped around or replaced, there are a few of that batch that also have the short version fitted as well. The only way of being 100% sure of what a loco carried is to find a photo of the loco in the time period you model. This also applies to the batch D5176-D5232, 25056-25082.

 

I hope i haven't comfused you all too much.

 

Paul J.