BR blue and grey coaches

[Horace]

As a newbie constructing a pre-TOPS layout, I imagined that blue and grey coaching stock - either Mk 1 or early Mk 2 would be readily available: it seems I was mistaken :/ .  Any ideas how a decent rake could be achieved  (do kits exist?).  Or do I need to buy maroon and re-paint them myself?

[giz]

Like anything nowadays made in batches you have to pick them up when available. However, blue/grey coaches are about, here for example:

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1000389/1000588/1000636/1446728/hornby_oo_gauge_1_76_scale_coaches_era_7_br_corporate_blue_post_tops_1972_1982_1972_1982/prodlist.aspx

 

Edit: I notice you refer to pre-tops, there isn't really much difference pre and post-tops as far as coaches are concerned.

Edited March 29, 2021 by giz

[Steamport Southport]

Problem with Hattons is they don't sell Bachmann anymore, who do the main types of BR B/G coaches.

 

Some bargains here.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/c/623/Bachmann

 

 

 

Jason

Edited March 27, 2021 by Steamport Southport

[cages_cage]

The Hornby Mk1 range has a blue/grey range that is not too hard to find right now. However, the B/G colors of those coaches may be a dealbreaker - the grey is too white, and the blue is too dark. On the flipside, I have found the Hornby Mk1s to be more reliable runners, and have couplings that are easier to work with. This is because the NEM pocket is at the correct height. Most Bachmann Mk1s, and all Mk2a coaches have the pocket at the wrong height, making typical coupling solutions (such as Roco-style couplers or Kadees at the end of rakes) more annoying to achieve!

 

Bachmann has an extensive range of B/G Mk1s (I think the only type Bachmann has never made, but Hornby has, is the BSO), as well as Mk2a coaches. Since Bachmann seems to produce their offerings in smaller numbers than Hornby, their range can be harder to come by. You'll need to search for many items in second-hand condition. Kernow has some B/G coaches in stock, as does Hereford Model Centre. Looking around various outlets may lead you to the coaches you need.  Some coach types, such as TSOs and SKs, can be hard to come by.

 

Also of note - older Bachmann B/G coaches have a different, slightly greener shade of blue than the ones manufactured from around 2009-onwards. I believe any coaches with the current style of Bachmann's packaging will have the 'current' shade of blue. The difference between the old and new Bachmann B/G colors is noticeable when placed in a rake together, though not earth-shattering at all. However, Hornby's B/G coaches will look very out of place when put up against a Bachmann B/G coach!

[47164]

There is always eBay as a last resort.

[Halvarras]

1 hour ago, cages_cage said:

 

Also of note - older Bachmann B/G coaches have a different, slightly greener shade of blue than the ones manufactured from around 2009-onwards. I believe any coaches with the current style of Bachmann's packaging will have the 'current' shade of blue. The difference between the old and new Bachmann B/G colors is noticeable when placed in a rake together, though not earth-shattering at all. However, Hornby's B/G coaches will look very out of place when put up against a Bachmann B/G coach!

 

Another fairly recent change Bachmann made to their Mark 1 tooling was the removal of the roof ribs - I had no idea they had done this until I placed my newly-purchased SO (E5057) with my older stock a few years back. I wasn't too happy about the noticeably different appearance although I understand why the change was made, as the ribs were far too prominent. However I'm not convinced that a completely smooth roof looks right either......

[DCB]

Don't even think of repainting red ones, its a nightmare, Start with play worn Blue grey

Luckily there are loads of Blue Grey second hand on eBay and as you will have to sand down roof ribs on some and add them to others and adjust ride heights, and couplings and do a fair amount of repainting to get consistent appearance there isn't much (any?) advantage in buying  new.

You just need to do a degree course in which blue grey coaches run with which other coaches and with which locos.

That said with pre tops era all the trais looked the same so you only need two sets, a regular service set and one with most of the windows broken as a return football excursion.

[russ p]

8 hours ago, Horace said:

As a newbie constructing a pre-TOPS layout, I imagined that blue and grey coaching stock - either Mk 1 or early Mk 2 would be readily available: it seems I was mistaken :/ .  Any ideas how a decent rake could be achieved  (do kits exist?).  Or do I need to buy maroon and re-paint them myself?

 

Remember in the pre TOPS era there were still a few maroon coaches knocking about.  I'm doing pre TOPS 68/69 so have about 60/40 blue and grey /maroon split 

With locos mine are more green than blue

[vikingsmb]

Horace, my layout is set in 1967 Western Region location is west country so I can allow for warships Both D600 (silverfox/lima)  + D800 (All lima), baby warships (same as D600), hymeks (triang + Hornby), westerns (lima + 1 Hornby), blue pullmans (triang Hornby), lima class 117 +121s etc, 

Mark 1 coaches there are plenty to choose from, I tend to use lima, and some Bachmann though, mixed blue/grey + maroon, with a small rake of mk2 (lima)

I did use to have triang mk1's, but the drag was stupid on them, so got rid of the lot and got lima + Bachmann, with the Bachmann ones I have replaced the narrow NEM couplings with the Hornby wide NEM couplings (with coupler) however the height difference on the couplers is noticeable though, 

 

Loco wise, I've noticed the manufacturers dont really cater for this era much which annoys me

[Halvarras]

18 hours ago, russ p said:

 

Remember in the pre TOPS era there were still a few maroon coaches knocking about.  I'm doing pre TOPS 68/69 so have about 60/40 blue and grey /maroon split 

With locos mine are more green than blue

 

And BSK W34885 was still in WR chocolate & cream livery in late July 1968! (Bachmann have done this one, 39-079B from memory, however it has chalk boards on the brake end doors, definitely not applicable by 1968.)

Edited March 28, 2021 by Neil Phillips
Added Bachmann comment

[Horace]

Many thanks to everybody who's replied to this with some very useful information.  This is my first time on here and and I am mightily impressed with how helpful people are!

[Horace]

On 28/03/2021 at 14:20, vikingsmb said:

Horace, my layout is set in 1967 Western Region location is west country so I can allow for warships Both D600 (silverfox/lima)  + D800 (All lima), baby warships (same as D600), hymeks (triang + Hornby), westerns (lima + 1 Hornby), blue pullmans (triang Hornby), lima class 117 +121s etc, 

 

Loco wise, I've noticed the manufacturers dont really cater for this era much which annoys me

We are modelling pretty much the same period Vikingsmb except mine is London Midland Region.  My original concept was 'circa 1970' but it's crept forward a few years due largely to what locos and rolling stock are currently available.  I like the variegated nature of the period with its mixture of b/g and maroon coaches and both blue and green locomotives.  Moving earlier also allows a bit of steam, so it's all good!

[DCB]

I feel the key to getting a realistic rake is to keep like with like. There is a huge difference between Lima and Hornby MK1s for instance, so much so that I won't mix Lima with Hornby in a single rake.    I use Hornby Mk2s as a dual brake set and some Airfix coaches with metal HO wheels as an airconditioned set. I also have a Hornby 57ft BG converted from two Mk1 Corridor brake seconds which runs with the Hornby Mk2s.   The Lima Mk2's just looked like completely different vehicles so they went on eBay, like wise Bachmann.  The trouble is I need 4 Mk 3 sleepers in bue / greyand that looks like £300 worth even on eBay.

If modelling the WR down the west country remember that even pre WW2 LNER and LMS coaches were an everday sight as through coaches and even as dated summer extra trains, this continued with LMR and ER based through trains into BR days, TOPs sort of came late to te WR as Hydraulics never went to TOPs numbers the Peaks, 47 s, 25s and 31s came in.   WR steam ended effectively in late 1962 in the far west and the end of 1965 wth a bit of SR and LMS through runing Oxford - Basingstoke and Somerset and Dorset WR based locos into 66

Edited March 30, 2021 by DavidCBroad

[Legend]

I do like my Lima Mk1s in Blue / Grey . Nice smooth runners . However  they are not flush glazed which spoils them a bit . From a distance watching them go round layout its not noticable though . I also like the new Hornby Mk1s but the colours are slighly off as others have said , to me the blue is a little too dark . Bachmann is really the best , but I do seem to get a lot of phantom uncouplings using their tension locks , more than other makes . They are also relatively heavy which might be an issue if hauling long trains . Also the most expensive of the bunch .  Don't forget there are also Mainline ones you can source pretty inexpensively on eBay , but just the SO , BSK and dining cars . 

[Halvarras]

Such a pity that Hornby messed up both the blue (too dark) and grey (too cream) shades on their Mark 1s as it sounds like they'd have had a market for these vs Bachmann. All they had to do was use the same colours as the sides and roof of the Class 50 in Large Logo Blue. Maybe they came out of different factories?

 

I recall being quite impressed at the sight of printed lining on the Lima Mark 1s (not so impressed by the completely random running numbers though!), they weren't like that at launch but I think the lined Mainline b/g models made them up their game. Unfortunately Mainline's lining was too thick and Lima's was too thin, and those early efforts were often out of alignment with the livery application, but Mainline's RB and ex-LMS 50' BG showed improvements, as did Lima's late-to-the-party SK (which was even numbered correctly!) and now we can expect RTR stock in blue/grey livery to be near faultless.........in the lining department anyway. Colours can be another matter entirely it seems......