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Hello :)

I've got a fairly small layout, and a fairly small budget to match. I've currently got a Hornby Class 08 (RailRoad range), which is hardly known for being the most accurate of models. Because of my budget, I can't afford to go and spend ~£100 on a proper Hornby or Bachmann one, and so the Lima Class 09 looks to be a suitable alternative. My main issue with the Hornby RailRoad 08 is the wheels/connecting rods, which seem to be better on the Lima 09. However, having seen a few pictures of the latter, it looks like the bodyshell might still be the wrong size?

All of this is a really long-winded way of asking, "Is the Lima Class 09 decent for someone who's on a budget, and who wishes to repaint it into a more modern colour scheme?". I don't really want to have another BR green engine as it's not my favourite livery, so I'd probably paint a loco into FGW blue or maybe even the Cornish flag livery on one of GWR's shunters.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

-Peter

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Ron Lines has some super detail Bachmann 08's at around £60 on the pre owned section. No connection just thought it might be a better investment long term.

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2 minutes ago, Chrisr40 said:

Ron Lines has some super detail Bachmann 08's at around £60 on the pre owned section. No connection just thought it might be a better investment long term.

Ah cool - I'd heard of them before but hadn't thought to check. Having had a quick look, there seems to be a few different versions on there too; the EWS one looks really quite nice.

 

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

Yes. They're fine.

 

Dated of course. But I can't remember that many complaints back in the day.

 

 

 

 

Jason

Excellent - thanks very much. :) I've not seen many complaints but knowing my luck, I'd get one only to find out I'd completely missed all the criticism about them and bought a dodgy engine!

 

-Peter

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I’ve got an 09 from back in 1978.  It runs occasionally . Have to say it’s a decent model . Mine is capable of running at reasonable slow speed (although it does have a very high speed) , so I’d say perfectly adaquate . Obviously no where near the detail of a Hornby or Bachman one , but she is miles better than the Railroad or older Hornby versions with no outside frames !  The motor is pretty noisy though , in common with most Lima locos 

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20 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

Lima wheelsets with extra wide flanges are the biggest problem cab profile not perfect either!

 Runs through setrack and peco streamline fine 

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Hi there,

 I still have mine from 1979 when my mum bought me one for Christmas.

In the intervening years, I filed down the coupling rods and inadvertently cut the motor magnet in half, lengthways!

Long story but I had broken the magnet on a Lima 117 DMU!

Later, I gave it flushglaze and a repaint into BR blue.

It may lack the finesse of say, a Hornby model but it’s very passable. With the motor weakening that I inadvertently performed on it, it ran quite adequately.

Enjoy it,

John

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If by 'Railroad 08' you mean the one with the inside framed Jinty chassis, then the Lima is by any standards a hugely superior model.  It has it's issues, and you must decide if you can live with it's shortcomings or save up for the full fat Hornby or Bachmann loco.  An 08 is going to be the hardest working loco on most layouts that have one, so this is an important decision, and the more facts you have at your disposal the better that decision will be for your purposes.  I fully appreciate that if cash is limited, the all-singing-all-dancing current hifi models are not an option.

 

Pros, Lima:-

 

Outside frames

Good quality plastic tooling for the bodyshell, reasonably to scale

Bombproof reliable mechanism

Easily available secondhand and prices are generally low

Good performance, haulage, and slow running despite high gearing (you'll get a scale 200mph out of one of these)

 

Cons, Lima:-

 

Cab full of motor, very visible through unglazed cab windows, nothing you can do about it, must be lived with

Overscale coupling rods

Spur gear final drive visible from side of loco

Lima wheels.  They'll run through Peco and setrack code 100 flangeways, but they look awful and seem to be made of some alloy that positively attracts crud, compromising the pickups and spreading said crud all over your layout. 

Hideous oversized Lima tension lock couplings

 

Pros, Triang/Triang Hornby/Hornby Railroad

 

None except price, usually very cheap,  There is a reason for this

 

Cons, Triang /Triang Hornby/Hornby Railroad

 

Inside framed Jinty chassis and mech with completely incorrect axle spacing

Incorrectly shaped bodyshell tooling

Motor and worm gear visible at side of loco and through cab windows, which are not glazed

Very poor buffers

Flangeless centre driving wheels on older models, solid wheels on original production Triangs with the stamped couplings

'Current' Jinty chassis has sprung rear axle which is very fiddly to adjust for good running; too strong lifts the rear of the loco and upsets pickup

Ride height is too high by about 2mm at the buffers for Triang and Triang Hornby locos, and some early Hornby

 

 

The Lima can be worked up a bit, and benefit from glazing, as much ballast as you can cram in, filing down the coupling rods, and fitting better buffers.  If I had one nowadays, I'd be investigating the possibility of fitting Parkside PA34 NEM coupling mounts to replace the Lima couplings with NEM.  You'd undoubtedly be better off with a current Hornby or Bachmann, but if you can't afford one even secondhand (they tend to retain their value on eBay), then the Lima is definitely the best alternative; much better than the Railroad Hornby 08, which is really not much more than a crude toy, even by the standards of 1955 when it was first produced.

 

There is another secondhand alternative, the Hornby Dublo 2 rail.  This is comparable to the Lima in terms of scale and appearance, and also has the cab filled with the motor, vertically mounted and driving the rear axle through a worm and cog drive in this case.  This a much heavier and better running loco, geared for good smooth slow control, and the wheels don't pick up crud as much as tthe Lima.  It's quieter as well.  My view is that, if given a choice between the Hornby Dublo and Lima 08s at similar prices in similar condition, the Hornby Dublo is the one to go for despite it's age.

 

 

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I am happy with my Lima model. I painted the connecting rods red and fitted a replacement CD motor. It has a top scale speed of about 20mph  powered by single Lipo battery and radio control. I have a spare chassis and one day I want to install radio controlled tension lock uncoupling at both ends.

 

The Hornby Dublo 2 rail might be an option as well, even more room inside?

 

Just looked at a review of the Dublo version, don't think I will be buying one.

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11 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Yes. They're fine.

 

Dated of course. But I can't remember that many complaints back in the day.

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

Probably because there wasn't any realistic competition, the H/D one at a price, Kitmaster to build and motorise, Sayer Chaplin likewise or the joke of the Triang version.

Especially better when they were being knocked out at a fiver a pop later on in their life!

 

Mike.

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Agreed the Lima 08 was a much better model than the old Hornby one with the steam loco chassis. It's body isn't quite right dimensionally and the outside frames are very 2 - dimensional but it was worth improvement. I filed down the over scale coupling rods as much as I dared, painted them matt black, and then painted thin red rods onto them, to give a 'trompe-l'oeil' effect. The camera is cruel but it looked half-decent on the layout, and with extra pickups it ran very well too.

 

WP_20200629_08_31_21_Pro.jpg.64d00e88e491928150fb9c4cd1806941.jpg

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I had a Lima one back in the day I tarted up with some new buffers, flush glaze and a decent paint job.

 

It was decent enough but I did invest in a second hand Bachmann one at a sensible price when I found one at a show.

 

It may well be worth browsing the second hand piles at shows if we ever see those again to see if any come up, they are worth it.

 

The Hornby one is good as well (watch out for the screeching issue on earlier releases, easily rectified) but definitely more expensive even second hand and I don't think for a everyday workhorse on a layout, the difference is worth it over a cheaper Bachmann one.

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I still run a Hornby Dublo one. I've flushed glazed the cab which goes a long way to hiding the motor, fitted modern couplings and painted it black. Next I intend to replace the centre drivers. It has never let me down even when it has spent a long time out of use.

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The Hornby Dublo 08 was also produced by Wrenn, they may be easier to find than genuine HD. One problem though, if you use DCC they are not the easiest to convert as one of the brush housings is earthed to the chassis and needs drilling out and insulating as per the other one. I have a couple and that has put me off running them.

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7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

The Lima can be worked up a bit, and benefit from ....., as much ballast as you can cram in, ....

Very true for any Lima pancake-motor loco. They do seem to thrive & run better with a lot of weight added.

The Lima '09' - it was an 08 to all intents & purposes - is much better than the Hornby Railroad 08,  but I would second the option of saving up for a second-hand Bachmann one if possible.

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Later Lima 08/09s, along with nearly all other Lima locos, had different and usually lower gear ratios fitted to models made from sometime in the 1980s. These have the gears held on by small hex headed brass screws rather than a spring clip. The 08/09s also had geared drive to all wheels on the later type rather than just relying on the coupling rods. These later ones usually run a bit better than the earlier ones.  Both types picked up on four wheels only - easy to add extra pickups on the remaining two wheels. I think later type had pickups on top of the wheels that may have been held in by a few plastic pips. These can get pushed up out the way a bit so a small screw to secure them to the chassis helps pickup. Older ones I think picked up current from contacts on the back of the wheels. Some of the last produced models had coupling rods that were quite a lot finer than earlier ones.

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3 minutes ago, mossdp said:

Later Lima 08/09s, along with nearly all other Lima locos, had different and usually lower gear ratios fitted to models made from sometime in the 1980s. These have the gears held on by small hex headed brass screws rather than a spring clip. The 08/09s also had geared drive to all wheels on the later type rather than just relying on the coupling rods. These later ones usually run a bit better than the earlier ones.  Both types picked up on four wheels only - easy to add extra pickups on the remaining two wheels. I think later type had pickups on top of the wheels that may have been held in by a few plastic pips. These can get pushed up out the way a bit so a small screw to secure them to the chassis helps pickup. Older ones I think picked up current from contacts on the back of the wheels. Some of the last produced models had coupling rods that were quite a lot finer than earlier ones.

ISTR that there were some supplied in train sets that had no coupling rods so best to avoid them.

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1 hour ago, giz said:

ISTR that there were some supplied in train sets that had no coupling rods so best to avoid them.

Yes, I had one of those for a while - must have been a dirt-cheap impulse buy! I seem to recall that it lacked a front coupler too, like the cheapo Lima 0-4-0 diesel..?? :scratchhead:

Fortunately the lack of outside cranks & rods is hard to miss, so that version is easily avoided!! ;)

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2 hours ago, giz said:

ISTR that there were some supplied in train sets that had no coupling rods so best to avoid them.

 

It was probably the existence of this model which prompted Lima to modify the 08/09's drive, as I'm sure this trainset model appeared first. Its fully geared chassis meant the coupling rods didn't need to be beefy enough to transmit drive, so they were slimmed down and sort of went along for the ride!

 

The body moulding is a little confused as it has the impossible combination of early hinged engine access doors and late steel cab doors (so do Bachmann's D3963 & D3986!) with an air brake compressor cabinet. If Lima had not tooled those access door hinges it would have been good for a mass of late-build dual-braked machines. I bought one when they first came out in the late 1970s and laboriously carved and scraped all those hinges away. I also filed the rear cab windows out to more accurate dimensions and replaced the coupling rods with drilled lengths of N gauge rail and cut-down Romford brass crank pins. I then painted it BR blue as Scottish 4097, to run with some Type 2s I'd produced from contemporary models, on the assumption that it must have been painted blue if it had been dual-braked...........only to discover many years later (when I no longer had it) than as 08883 it had been one of the few 08s to have been dual-braked but not repainted, so there never was a blue 4097! Well, you know what they say about assumption.....:huh:

 

BTW, I'll add this here, if anyone needs replacement coupling rods/cranks for the original Lima 08/09 (with the thicker rods), Elaine's Trains currently have these in stock at £3/pair. No connection with the company other than as a satisfied customer.

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I have the old trainset version and an 08 of indeterminate age and thetwo chassis are completely different though motor and body interchange.

The old outside frame one goes like a rocket but while it does run slowlyish it won't do it for long with a decent load before the motor protests. 

Mine grew a Computer motor and resistors, dn't ask the values, they are covered with thick black gunge, and it went a lot better, currently its in bits awaiting a Radio Control conversion.

I have a Wrenn one with Romford 60:1 gears.   It burned out in 20 feet from brand new but with the lower gears runs as slowly as a Bachmann has a top speed about the same as a Bachmann but rocks and bangs and crashes around like an 08 not like a stabilsed cruise liner as does the Bachmann, it will hapily pull two Bachmann ones backwards, thats about 3 Limas.

Sadly you can't DCC the Wremm efectively as you lose too much ballast weight, which needs cutting off with a Hacksaw as well as insulating a brush holder.

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Thanks everyone for all of your replies - I've just been reading through them all and they're really helpful. I've had a look on eBay for a Hornby Dublo Class 08 and the cheapest one to buy now (I'm not a fan of auctions really) is about £60, so quite a bit more than the Lima one. They do look to be decent models in appearance though so I'll make sure to look out for them in the future. I've also made note of the other places mentioned for improvements/other 08s/09s for sale so I can improve an engine if I buy one.

I've got a few Lima locos already, none of which are in excellent condition and so I've got an idea of how Lima models can go wrong, which should allow me to fix one if it goes wrong. The motor in the cab isn't a major issue, nor is the lack of glazing - the latter can be solved easily with some clear plastic if I really don't like it. I don't really use shunters much on my layout at the moment but if I had a half-decent one I expect it'll get used quite a bit! :)

 

Anyway - thanks once again to everyone who's responded. I wasn't expecting this number of replies and each one has been really helpful and interesting; I'll respond back here if I get one and let you know (if you're interested of course!) what it's like.

 

-Peter

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Maybe a bit unkind , but I nipped up the loft fora comparison . This is my 1978 Lima 09 and a Hornby 08 . The 08 was originally a DCC sound model but the shop I purchased it from had removed all the DCC gubbins  and it runs on analogue , although in the opposite direction  to all my other models . I need to sort that out 

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It’s funny, just been glazing a Lima 09 today. It improves the looks quite a bit. There’s a few people doing the CD remotoring kits now, diesel-trains.co.uk is another.

 

it’s worth pointing out that the non-doc ready ‘split chassis’ Bachmann class 08s can be had for quite a bit less money than the dcc ready ones. They all come in the original branchline boxes, and do take a bit of looking after, but will run better than the previous generation of models by quite some way.

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