Abandoned rails in the road.....(or elsewhere...)

[009 micro modeller]

A couple of 18" (ish) gauge examples (the first is actually 18 1/2):

 

 

 

Berkhamsted Gasworks Tramway, taken last summer. This line was horse-drawn, pretty much either paved or in-filled with slightly looser material throughout and passed under the WCML in a tunnel, connecting the end of a long siding from the main line station to the gasworks, which was on the other side of the tracks and slightly further north. Mostly removed on closure but the track and pavement through the tunnel is still there. This was taken from the canal end of the tunnel - the other end now emerges in a private garden, hence the metal fence/grill on each end. Unfortunately, I seem not to have taken an overall view of the approach to the tunnel.

 

 

 

 

 

True 18" gauge this time - Imphal Barracks railway at Fulford Ings in York, photographed in 2017. Again a short horse-drawn line, it passed through the now infilled but still obvious gate in the wall behind and took munitions from a quay on the River Ouse to the barracks (I don't think it ever extended across the road to where the modern barracks are though).

 

Finally a standard gauge line, though this one isn't 'in the road':

 

 

 

The disused Croxley Green station, taken in 2016 before it was fenced off and presumably cleared in connection with the Rail Link works. First picture is looking back down the Network SouthEast-era steps, which I think were built to go with the 'temporary' platform when the old station buildings and covered staircase were dismantled. I do have some more photos of this site, showing some NSE lamp posts and the concrete supports for the old platform on the opposite side, though the lighting was not the best. The second photo shows the bridge, looking towards Watford - the (dead, obviously) conductor rail can be seen in this shot.

Edited May 15, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Croxley Green and Berkhamsted photos restored but still looking for the Imphal Barracks ones.

[montyburns56]

Horwich Loco Works.

[adb968008]

Horwich loco works.

 

That should be hallowed ground.

[melmerby]

Another Moorland line (afaik not mentioned yet)

Dartmoor's Rowtor Military Target railway:

 

 

 

[Dava]

54 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Horwich loco works.

 

That should be hallowed ground.

Should be, but how much survives demolition?

 

[Ramblin Rich]

31 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Another Moorland line (afaik not mentioned yet)

Dartmoor's Rowtor Military Target railway:

 

 

 

Sorry, beat you to it on previous page! Although I did call it a slightly different name...

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Ramblin Rich
stupid phone keyboard

[009 micro modeller]

21 minutes ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Sorry, beat you to it on previous page! Although I did call it a slightly different name...

 

 

Is it completely abandoned though? There are supposed to be remains of the earlier target railways as well.

[melmerby]

14 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Is it completely abandoned though? There are supposed to be remains of the earlier target railways as well.

There is at least one motor unit in the shed and IIRC there are some preservation plans afoot.

[009 micro modeller]

10 minutes ago, melmerby said:

There is at least one motor unit in the shed and IIRC there are some preservation plans afoot.

 

When I went up there a few years ago it all looked a bit rusty but basically useable and I was under the impression it was still used (when the range is closed to the public, obviously). I think one of the two trolleys is still in the shed as you say, the other is preserved at Leighton Buzzard, of all places. I seem to remember that at one time the one that’s still there was displayed in a museum somewhere locally but was then taken back and reconditioned for further use. Do we know what form ‘preservation’ might take (are the plans for the target trolley or the whole line)? The earlier lines I referred to were separate and were 18” and then 2ft gauge, I think cable-hauled rather than motorised.

[009 micro modeller]

Possibly this is the preservation activity: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowtor_Target_Railway

 

I was, however, under the impression that the current line is 2’ 6” gauge; the Middleton Press book suggests this and it definitely looked quite wide when I visited. Also, I think the Leighton Buzzard trolley straddles the siding it is displayed on there as it is a wider gauge.

[melmerby]

It says 2' 6" in the article on NG British military railways for Okehampton Gun range and 2' 0" for Rowtor.

Aren't they the same thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_military_narrow-gauge_railways

Edited April 11, 2021 by melmerby

[Axlebox]

https://ngon30.weebly.com/closed-narrow-gauge--miniature-passenger-lines.html

 

There is something really sad about a closed miniature railway...

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

It says 2' 6" in the article on NG British military railways for Okehampton Gun range and 2' 0" for Rowtor.

Aren't they the same thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_military_narrow-gauge_railways

 

They are now but I understand there was a previous line of 2ft gauge, and before that an 18” one. The current one is 2’ 6” I think.

[Halvarras]

Found this set into a pavement near the Penzance Dry Dock this afternoon - never noticed it before but perhaps that was because SWMBO always dragged me into 'The Buccaneer' gift shop on the opposite side of the road (that's my excuse, plus my memory's 8 years older than the last time I was there!) She went into the shop as usual today but I got 'temporarily distracted'.......

The rails only seem to go as far as the wall beyond the vehicle parked behind the gate, and immediately behind me is the Penzance - Newlyn road (via the sea front) and a boat yard for larger stuff like trawlers, so I assume these rails were connected to the fishing industry or boat repair, although there's no visible sign of the rails continuing on that side of the road now.

Very neat granite setts though.....

[Ramblin Rich]

On 11/04/2021 at 15:27, melmerby said:

It says 2' 6" in the article on NG British military railways for Okehampton Gun range and 2' 0" for Rowtor.

Aren't they the same thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_military_narrow-gauge_railways

According to Bernard Mills' book Railways Round Dartmoor, the 'current' visible line is 2'6" gauge and dates from WW2. There was another short stretch nearby, single track running north east , again 2'6" gauge, dismantled in 1942. [edit - the book states the current line 'replaced' the former one, but doesn't day exactly when built. The Geograph entry which Wikipeda links to, states 1959, with no real source for the date; I would have thought a date during WW2 is more likely]

There was a much older line from around 1895, a single line running  in a northerly direction, from East Mill Tor (east of the current line) which was 18" gauge. That was just single line & trolleys ran down by gravity, pulled back by horse. The book has a picture of a fragment of track by the military 'ring road'.

There are other short fragments of line related to the old firing ranges at Willsworthy, but the Row Tor / West Mill Tor one is by far the most visible & easy enough to find.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Ramblin Rich
further info

[009 micro modeller]

According to the Middleton Press Devon Narrow Gauge book the one that closed in 1942 (must be the one they mean as it comes in between the 18” line and the modern one) was 2ft gauge. However, there are apparently minor errors elsewhere in that book so they may have got it wrong. There’s some interesting information on the Dartmoor Railway Supporters’ Association website that suggests the history of the rolling stock for the current line is a bit more convoluted than previously suggested:

https://www.dartmoor-railway-sa.org/rowtor

https://www.dartmoor-railway-sa.org/rowtorhistory

Edited April 12, 2021 by 009 micro modeller

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

Found this set into a pavement near the Penzance Dry Dock this afternoon - never noticed it before but perhaps that was because SWMBO always dragged me into 'The Buccaneer' gift shop on the opposite side of the road (that's my excuse, plus my memory's 8 years older than the last time I was there!) She went into the shop as usual today but I got 'temporarily distracted'.......

The rails only seem to go as far as the wall beyond the vehicle parked behind the gate, and immediately behind me is the Penzance - Newlyn road (via the sea front) and a boat yard for larger stuff like trawlers, so I assume these rails were connected to the fishing industry or boat repair, although there's no visible sign of the rails continuing on that side of the road now.

Very neat granite setts though.....

Looks like it went ito the building which it is alongside via a wagon turntable:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=19&lat=50.11681&lon=-5.53177&layers=168&right=BingSat

 

EDIT

Closer inspection of Google maps seems to show the rails going into the doorway:

https://goo.gl/maps/6FZ2mHLKdtkmEChZ6

Edited April 12, 2021 by melmerby

[009 micro modeller]

To add to the possible confusion at Okehampton, there’s also another target railway nearby of a different design: http://www.dartmoorcam.co.uk/CAM/previouswalks/2011-4-20_Willsworthy/willsworthy.htm

 

And here is the trolley at Leighton Buzzard:

 

[Ramblin Rich]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

According to the Middleton Press Devon Narrow Gauge book the one that closed in 1942 (must be the one they mean as it comes in between the 18” line and the modern one) was 2ft gauge. However, there are apparently minor errors elsewhere in that book so they may have got it wrong. There’s some interesting information on the Dartmoor Railway Supporters’ Association website that suggests the history of the rolling stock for the current line is a bit more convoluted than previously suggested:

https://www.dartmoor-railway-sa.org/rowtor

https://www.dartmoor-railway-sa.org/rowtorhistory

Interesting links and good photos of 'Captain' in daylight. Seems from the 2nd link that it's actually a relatively recent rebuild combining parts from other trolleys, but was used after 2001…

The first link also mentioned the 'OP6 incline target railway' which is the older one, running north from East Mill Tor.

As you say, it is complicated. Bernard Mills has some pictures of track remains at Willsworthy too.

[96701]

On 10/04/2021 at 22:40, adb968008 said:

Horwich loco works.

 

That should be hallowed ground.

I started my railway career in Horwich Works Training School.

[Halvarras]

37 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Looks like it went ito the building which it is alongside via a wagon turntable:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=19&lat=50.11681&lon=-5.53177&layers=168&right=BingSat

 

EDIT

Closer inspection of Google maps seems to show the rails going into the doorway:

https://goo.gl/maps/6FZ2mHLKdtkmEChZ6

 

Nice going Keith, and many thanks for your efforts! It was unfortunate the vehicle was parked there because now I know what to look for I can just see one of the rails still going into that doorway. As the sign on the white part of the wall indicates the building has been converted to residential use, but it would be interesting to know what activity carried out in it required rails and presumably some kind of trolley........engine overhauls?

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Interesting links and good photos of 'Captain' in daylight. Seems from the 2nd link that it's actually a relatively recent rebuild combining parts from other trolleys, but was used after 2001…

The first link also mentioned the 'OP6 incline target railway' which is the older one, running north from East Mill Tor.

As you say, it is complicated. Bernard Mills has some pictures of track remains at Willsworthy too.

 

Somewhere, I have some photos of my own (though without the trolley - the shed was locked).

 

Going slightly off-topic, I’ve sometimes wondered about doing an 009 layout based on this line - it has a lot of appeal as a small but complete and self-contained railway. As far as I could tell from visiting it a few years ago and looking at photos now, the loop points at each end are either sprung or arranged in such a way that they are pushed open as appropriate by the target trolley wheels - if I was modelling it I’d be tempted to either build or modify the loop points in such a way that they were one-way with no moving parts, in the style of these (but 9mm gauge obviously): https://www.tgauge.com/product/121/left-hand-one-way-turnout

 

However, I quite like the idea of having proper points on the shed roads as that would then allow a second trolley to be stored there, as on the prototype - it could be swapped over occasionally. I’m not sure what radius points would be right for those. To save space and allow a reasonable representation of the straight middle section I’d probably use a ridiculously tight radius for the loops as they’d only have a single 4-wheel vehicle running light on them, unaffected by coupling overhang - I’m not sure what the radius is in reality. Last time I looked into it I think I was planning to do an ‘inspired by’ layout on a very tight oval, purely because at the time I didn’t want it to end up too long and thin or to have to get into the wiring needed for the balloon loops. But actually the prototypical track layout is important in capturing the look and operating methods of the line.

 

As I recall there is a kind of ramp thing in the track at the shed end designed to knock the trolley out of gear and thereby bring it to a stop, though I can’t remember whether it is on the main line or the shed road (though possibly it’s the latter, as I don’t think there was a way of raising and lowering it which would logically suggest that it could not have been on the loop itself, unless they wanted the trolley to have to be restarted after every return trip up the line). I really like the shed but always wondered why it splits into two roads, as this seems to introduce another point unnecessarily in addition to the one connecting the shed to the main line (as opposed to having a single line in a shed long enough for both trolleys, and completing any shunting using the point that connects the shed to the loop).

 

Has it ever had any more substantial ballast? I always associate military NG lines with being relatively well-engineered and maintained, though it’s probably not necessary for such a lightweight operation. I can only find photos of it taken during either the earlier or more recent periods of disuse.

[eastglosmog]

11 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

Found this set into a pavement near the Penzance Dry Dock this afternoon - never noticed it before but perhaps that was because SWMBO always dragged me into 'The Buccaneer' gift shop on the opposite side of the road (that's my excuse, plus my memory's 8 years older than the last time I was there!) She went into the shop as usual today but I got 'temporarily distracted'.......

The rails only seem to go as far as the wall beyond the vehicle parked behind the gate, and immediately behind me is the Penzance - Newlyn road (via the sea front) and a boat yard for larger stuff like trawlers, so I assume these rails were connected to the fishing industry or boat repair, although there's no visible sign of the rails continuing on that side of the road now.

Very neat granite setts though.....

No, you were being Socially Responsible, with only one member of the household being in the shop at a time!

[JSModels]

On 10/04/2021 at 19:21, 009 micro modeller said:

 

 

 

 

True 18" gauge this time - Imphal Barracks railway at Fulford Ings in York, photographed in 2017. Again a short horse-drawn line, it passed through the now infilled but still obvious gate in the wall behind and took munitions from a quay on the River Ouse to the barracks (I don't think it ever extended across the road to where the modern barracks are though).

 

I walked over the Millennium Bridge on Saturday, and saw this - due (presumably) to the amount of foot traffic, there's actually a little less grass coverage now than in these pictures, rather than more. It took me completely by surprise, I had no idea it was there - it wasn't until I saw the plaque at the other side of the river that explains what it was that I thought 'I should have taken some pictures of that'! Being too lazy to walk back across to take pictures, I'm pleased to see someone's added it to this thread!

 

Jonathan

[009 micro modeller]

58 minutes ago, jrb said:

 

I walked over the Millennium Bridge on Saturday, and saw this - due (presumably) to the amount of foot traffic, there's actually a little less grass coverage now than in these pictures, rather than more. It took me completely by surprise, I had no idea it was there - it wasn't until I saw the plaque at the other side of the river that explains what it was that I thought 'I should have taken some pictures of that'! Being too lazy to walk back across to take pictures, I'm pleased to see someone's added it to this thread!

 

Jonathan

 

I’d be interested to know if there’s any rails left on the other side of the wall (which is private), though they might be buried under the modern yard surface now. I don’t think there was a path on the route of the current cycleway when the railway was operating but I’m not absolutely sure. There is a short section of rail left between the cycleway and the wall.