regme Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Well it's time to change the layout, after researching car dumpers and ore loaders my orginal layout is not big enough to accommodate both on the same layout. So I have come up with this, however I was hoping to make more interseting from an operations point of view. So idealy, I would like to make it modular but using 1200x600 insulation foam. I'm looking at trying to reduce the footprint of the car dumper to give me more space. But at the moment I just can't see it. I have looked at making it a T shaped layout with a background to seperate the two, but it just looked wrong, from above anyway. Any thoughts would be great. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 16 hours ago, regme said: Well it's time to change the layout, after researching car dumpers and ore loaders my orginal layout is not big enough to accommodate both on the same layout. So I have come up with this, however I was hoping to make more interseting from an operations point of view. What is your available space? What are your interests/what are you trying to achieve? You say you want more interesting from an operations point of view, but what do you mean by operations (or, what sort of operations is it that interests you)? You say HO, so I assume this isn't a UK prototype - so what is it? European, North American, Australian? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
regme Posted April 2, 2021 Author Share Posted April 2, 2021 Hi The space I have is 4.0m x 3.0m, however I need to keep with 1.2m on the walls, it's HO, Australian, iron ore. The cyan rectangles represents the footprint that each structure will take up, it allows for 50mm around each one. At the moment is just a loop, but I would like to be able to sort wagons off the main loop while the trains go around. I have re-drawn it, to make more sense, the previous was a bit confusing. The more I look at it, the worse is gets, considering I still need to get the scenery to work also. Just not enough space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted April 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2021 1 hour ago, regme said: The cyan rectangles represents the footprint that each structure will take up, it allows for 50mm around each one. Why is the dumper so big? It seems to be more than a third of your 4100mm dimension. Also, the gradients look rather fierce, particularly out of the loader towards the flyover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 1 hour ago, regme said: The space I have is 4.0m x 3.0m, however I need to keep with 1.2m on the walls So the first question is how long are your arms? As in, no measurement needed but if a train derails or stops can you reach the train at the back corners of your proposed layout without destroying the scenery and/or structures between you and the train... Practical experience means most people tend to limit shelf style layouts to 18" to 24" deep, though I am sure there are working exceptions that the owners are happy with. 1 hour ago, regme said: The more I look at it, the worse is gets, considering I still need to get the scenery to work also. Just not enough space. The first step is acknowledging the problems, and good for you for recognizing the problem prior to building. We all face the issue - our wants and/or dreams usually exceed the available space by a large amount. Does the layout have to have a loop of track for continuously running trains, or can a non-loop style layout be considered? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
regme Posted April 3, 2021 Author Share Posted April 3, 2021 So the total length of dumper includes the indexer and switchrooms, the smaller rectangle is if I remove the switchrooms and just leave the indexer. The dumper does two wagons at a time, so I could change it to one wagon which would reduce the indexer and building. Running the wagons in pairs would allow me to have a rotating bar rather than a coupler. There was a guy in the US that did rotating couplers but not anymore. I've worked the grades at 3%, but I'll test that with the locos since I'll be running them in pairs. Yes, I did think about my arm length and thought if I didn't have any points in those locations shouldn't have any issues, famous last words. I thought about a two shelf layout with the dumper on one and the loader on the other, but the helix would have to bigger than the space I have. If the dumper was above the loader then I would a closed system for the ore, then I would need at least 500 to 600 between the shelves. I also figured out that I will need at least 27m of track to run a rake of 200 wagons (maybe not on this layout). If I just ran 10 wagons I'm up to 1.4m not including the locos. It doesn't really lend it's self to a point to point layout. I need a bigger house. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 So, standard disclaimer, your layout so only you know what you can live with and what you can give up - and it may involve attempting to build it to see if it works for you. Some other possibilities to maybe consider Is there a modular club around you that you could join, and perhaps build your must-have dumper and loader as modules? Would you be happy building the loader and/or dumper as modules, with an eye towards being able to then use them on a future layout when you have more space? Can you live without the loader/dumper and instead build more of a shelf style layout, something you could operate and build up your inventory of dream layout rolling stock, until such time as you have more space? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 20 hours ago, mdvle said: So the first question is how long are your arms? As in, no measurement needed but if a train derails or stops can you reach the train at the back corners of your proposed layout without destroying the scenery and/or structures between you and the train... Practical experience means most people tend to limit shelf style layouts to 18" to 24" deep, though I am sure there are working exceptions that the owners are happy with. The first step is acknowledging the problems, and good for you for recognizing the problem prior to building. We all face the issue - our wants and/or dreams usually exceed the available space by a large amount. Does the layout have to have a loop of track for continuously running trains, or can a non-loop style layout be considered? Just on the 'reach' question, I noted it too. I have just redesigned my own layout using a maximum normal reach of 80-90cm but with those limitations I can still reach into the diagonal corner, and the reason is that I lowered the whole layout 5cm to help. So height off floor is a factor for reach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
regme Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) The module idea may be the go. I'll have another go and see what turns out. My current layout is a dogbone shape with 1.2x1.2 m ends with a 600mm wide centre piece joining the two and so far reach hasn't been a problem, but I'll keep that in mind. Edited April 4, 2021 by regme Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 14 hours ago, regme said: The module idea may be the go. I'll have another go and see what turns out. My current layout is a dogbone shape with 1.2x1.2 m ends with a 600mm wide centre piece joining the two and so far reach hasn't been a problem, but I'll keep that in mind. It bears repeating - we can provide advice and ideas you may not have thought of, but our decision making and priorities could well be different than yours. If you find that the things we caution about a non-issue for you, or perhaps your willing to potentially damage scenery (or have no scenery) to get the continuous running, that is all perfectly acceptable because at the end of the day it is your layout and all that matters is what makes you happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
regme Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 I hear what your saying and I'm open to any ideas, since someone may come from a different diection that you have not thought about. When you stare at something long enough you just don't see the obvious sometimes. Anyway, I have had another go and adding bit extra than just a loop. I'm not liking how to join the two loops so you can enter and leave each loop. Got out the lego bricks and tried a few different grades and loco and with a SD30 and 5 wagons on a 430mm radius 3% seams ok not very prototypical but a fall back position if things get tight. Still need to take into account the transitions on the curves and how things will fit together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted April 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2021 You could perhaps combine the L plan and the oval plan to get the best of both worlds and make more space for all the parts like this: 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
regme Posted April 6, 2021 Author Share Posted April 6, 2021 Wow, that's pretty good, might even be able to open up some of the radii that I'm using. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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