Wiring DCC electrofrog crossover

[EWS60065]

1 hour ago, Yardman said:

I sent you the link previously.

http://a19modelrailwayclub.org/tonys-dcc-workshop/complex-pointwork-wiring-for-dcc/

You just need to connect your point linkage or even fasten one at the end of the peco trowbar to operate it. these are what we use.

https://www.rapidonline.com/marquardt-191-071-021-straight-lever-5-7mm-for-1050-series-micro-switches-59-4131

Thanks, yeah I did see that, it was just more which terminals of the switch to attach which rods and wires on to but I'm sure it will be pretty obvious when I get them.

[EWS60065]

6 hours ago, Yardman said:

From the ongoing posts in this thread it sounds like the electronic frog switcher is not detecting the short from incorrect polarity quick enough when the turnout is reversed. I do not understand why people use electronic frog switchers when a 50p microswitch does the same job instantly. Take the frog juicers out and stick a micro switch on your point linkage or at the end of the throwbar.

Does sound like the best option, shame about the high cost of the autofrogs to find out they don't really do the job, I suppose it's all part of building up a bank of knowledge that'll help be make even better decisions next time round

[EWS60065]

4 hours ago, RFS said:

 

You could use one these from Ebay - lever switch - select the short lever one.  The lever rests against the tie-bar which changes it as you operate the points. 

Right ok, sounds simple enough. Thank you

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, GWR5764 said:

Thanks, yeah I did see that, it was just more which terminals of the switch to attach which rods and wires on to but I'm sure it will be pretty obvious when I get them.

Microswitches have three terminals

Common (C), Normally closed (NC) and Normally open (NO)

C goes to the frog. NC should go to the track which the straight switch rail meets. NO should go to the track which the curved switch rail meets

This means that when the turnout is straight the frog is the same 'polarity' as the straight rail, when the turnout is operated the connection reverses, the microswitch changes and the frog is now the same 'polarity' as the curved rail

[EWS60065]

10 hours ago, melmerby said:

Microswitches have three terminals

Common (C), Normally closed (NC) and Normally open (NO)

C goes to the frog. NC should go to the track which the straight switch rail meets. NO should go to the track which the curved switch rail meets

This means that when the turnout is straight the frog is the same 'polarity' as the straight rail, when the turnout is operated the connection reverses, the microswitch changes and the frog is now the same 'polarity' as the curved rail

Got you, so the same as wiring up an autofrog I suppose. I assume the NC and NO terminals can be attached to any part of the bus wire as each of the two wires supply the same polarity and voltage everywhere throughout the layout?

I really appreciate your help with this otherwise I'd have no idea what I'd be doing! I'll probably get a few switches and try them out.

[ISW]

11 minutes ago, GWR5764 said:

I assume the NC and NO terminals can be attached to any part of the bus wire as each of the two wires supply the same polarity and voltage everywhere throughout the layout?

Hopefully the link below to the posting on my Layout on RMWeb is of some help. It includes a simple wiring diagram for the crossing (frog) polarity microswitch:

I used a small bit of veroboard and small plugs / sockets for the connections, but you could also wire it all directly.

 

Just be aware that NC means the microswitch is 'not pushed' and NO means the microswitch is 'pushed'. Yes, I thought it was backwards, but apparently the NO/NC refers to the state of the contacts within the microswitch and NOT the position of the operating lever. That had me fooled for quite a while.

 

Ian

[EWS60065]

36 minutes ago, ISW said:

Hopefully the link below to the posting on my Layout on RMWeb is of some help. It includes a simple wiring diagram for the crossing (frog) polarity microswitch:

I used a small bit of veroboard and small plugs / sockets for the connections, but you could also wire it all directly.

 

Just be aware that NC means the microswitch is 'not pushed' and NO means the microswitch is 'pushed'. Yes, I thought it was backwards, but apparently the NO/NC refers to the state of the contacts within the microswitch and NOT the position of the operating lever. That had me fooled for quite a while.

 

Ian

Thank you 

[John ks]

3 hours ago, ISW said:

Just be aware that NC means the microswitch is 'not pushed' and NO means the microswitch is 'pushed'. Yes, I thought it was backwards, but apparently the NO/NC refers to the state of the contacts within the microswitch and NOT the position of the operating lever. That had me fooled for quite a while.

I thought i might add my 2 cents worth regarding NO & NC contacts

NO = Normally Open & NC = Normally Closed

You are correct when saying " NO/NC refers to the state of the contacts" but only when the micro sw is at rest (not pushed)

The same terminology applies to relays & push button switches(PBSw)

Example If you wanted a light to go off while you press a PBSw then you would need a NC PBSw

Most people would want a light to go on while you press a PBSw then you would need a NO PBSw

Hope this helps 

John

 

 

[Yardman]

One thing that this topic has shown is the value of joining a club ( not easy at the moment I will admit). Three pages of conversation on this topic could have been answered in half an hour at any half decent Model Railway club and shown more ways of solving the problem hands on.

[EWS60065]

10 minutes ago, Yardman said:

One thing that this topic has shown is the value of joining a club ( not easy at the moment I will admit). Three pages of conversation on this topic could have been answered in half an hour at any half decent Model Railway club and shown more ways of solving the problem hands on.

I am part of a club but can't always attend (and not at all at the moment of course). For me, RMWeb seems a good option at the moment as there are hundreds of knowledgeable people in almost every area of railway modelling. Of course, talking at a club, if it was allowed, would have been a much easier and quicker way to understand as you say.

Edited April 5, 2021 by GWR5764

[ISW]

1 hour ago, John ks said:

I thought i might add my 2 cents worth regarding NO & NC contacts

NO = Normally Open & NC = Normally Closed

You are correct when saying " NO/NC refers to the state of the contacts" but only when the micro sw is at rest (not pushed)

The same terminology applies to relays & push button switches(PBSw)

Example If you wanted a light to go off while you press a PBSw then you would need a NC PBSw

Most people would want a light to go on while you press a PBSw then you would need a NO PBSw

Hope this helps 

John

 

 

John,

 

Yikes, it's even more complicated than I thought. Me thinks I'll just stick with the 'bit I understand', which isn't very much but is now enough for me to wire microswitches correctly. Thanks for the information though, it'll probably come in handy at some future point.

 

Ian