GWR lining panel proportions

[Hal Nail]

I'm about to line a 7mm 14xx I've repainted green. Looking at photos, assuming i can even see the lining under the grime, the tank side panels seem to vary slightly in terms of how near the edges the lining is, particularly at the front of the tank sides. This could just be down to the angle of photos tho.

 

In BR days did a sign writer paint on lining by hand, which even if following specification, was therefore be bound to vary slightly? Or did they use transfer panels, which would be proportioned the same, even if put in a slightly different spot?

Edited April 3, 2021 by Hal Nail

[Marshall5]

Definitely hand-lined according to (supposedly) certain fixed dimensions laid down by B.R.  Brian Haresnape's 'Railway Liveries - B.R. steam 1948-68' gives some of the dimensions e.g. thickness of lines, distance from edge of panels etc.  I'm not sure whether the copyright for the diagram belongs to the publisher (Ian Allen) or B.R. so probably best not to post it here.

Cheers,

Ray.

[bécasse]

Traditional skilled workmen such as signwriters always found the easiest way to do a job. They would almost certainly have had a series of simple stencils to aid them in marking up where the lining was to go - and that would suggest that its positioning was consistent.

 

[Miss Prism]

I think the trick was to try to avoid the rivets. Not easy on an 14xx. (The absence of a vertical rivet line at the front of the tank would explain some slight differences in that area.)

 

[Hal Nail]

Thanks all. That's a pretty clear photo. Ironically I retouched mine where the cab side wire wasnt hanging down straight and it left a line when I sprayed it. The real thing is just as skew wiff in that shot.

[NCB]

What is the cab-side wire? Not come across that before.

[Marshall5]

AFAIK its a conduit containing the wiring for the signalling bell on the inside of the driver's side cabside so only fitted to push pull fitted locos such as 14xx.

Ray.

[Miss Prism]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/27766756611/in/album-72157669536772912/

 

[Scorpio7uk]

The signalling bell in the cab is for the ATC (Automatic Train Control) system (BR had AWS) and nothing to do with the auto-train equipment as far as I know.

 

Jeff

[Marshall5]

Hi Jeff,

I must admit I thought about that after I'd posted but it is absent on the non auto fitted 58xx.  So do we conclude that the 14xx are ATC fitted but not the 58xx?  Just curious.

Cheers,

Ray.

[Miss Prism]

6 minutes ago, Marshall5 said:

So do we conclude that the 14xx are ATC fitted but not the 58xx?

 

ATC was fitted to 5801/3/9–13/5/6/9 in 1936–8.

 

[bécasse]

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

ATC was fitted to 5801/3/9–13/5/6/9 in 1936–8.

 

58xx ATC-fitted locos had a single battery box under the RH-side of the bunker, 48xx/14xx locos had two, one for the ATC and the other for rail-motor communication.

[Marshall5]

8 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

ATC was fitted to 5801/3/9–13/5/6/9 in 1936–8.

 

I'm even more confused now!   If  Jeff is correct that the bell is for the ATC  not a communication bell in auto mode and the conduit for it is the one that runs vertically up the cabside then I would expect to see it on photos of the 58xx listed above.  However I'm currently looking at photos (in Locomotives Illustrated # 60) of 5801 in 1956 and 5813 in 1949 and the conduit is absent.  Similarly the conduit is absent in photos of 1449 in 1950 and 1458 in 1948.

So, can anyone enlighten me please?

Ray.

 

[Miss Prism]

I think the vertical conduit is associated with the autofitting. The conduit is sometimes on the other side of the cab door on some early 48xx locos.

 

[Hal Nail]

Well the good news is I did a drawing of all this for an article I wrote when I added all the wiring on my 7mm 1419. The bad news is I edited that bit out and have forgotten it all! 

 

The atc shoe is near the front axle and the wire runs up the front of the tank on the drivers side, along the top and into the cab under the window. But, realstically, there would be an extra atc connection for the trailer as well on autofitted locos, and I concluded that's what pops down the side of the cab. This joins the wire running along the footpath valance between the battery box and the connection boxes on either bufferbeam.

 

Supposition so might be wrong of course!

Edited April 7, 2021 by Hal Nail