Signalling diagram for Sleaford

[TravisM]

I’m trying to find a recent signalling diagram for the Sleaford area but not having much luck.  From what I’ve found out and photographed is that the signalling at the west end of the station is what I’d call “traditional” MAS signals with the signal head having multiple aspects.

 

The eastern end, towards the level crossing and signal box, it’s the newer style of MAS with a single aspect, but at Sleaford east junction, is there a signal with a junction route indicator prior to getting to the junction?  I’m pretty sure that there would be but I’ve looked on Google maps and YouTube and not had much luck finding one.

 

In the other direction, after travelling under the avoider, there’s a signal to protect the junction which is MAS but I can’t see what style it is.  From what I’ve discovered, it seems to be a mixture of semaphore on the avoider and MAS signals on the approaches and station vicinity.

 

Any help would be most useful.

[berwicksfinest]

I have attached a PDF of the map of sleaford station area we were given if any help

 

Came across the avoider this morning, No semiphores on up or down road just MAS protecting junctions and affectively a distant prior.

Also on the avoider Up road is bi di

Sleaford Station.pdf

[great central]

11 minutes ago, berwicksfinest said:

I have attached a PDF of the map of sleaford station area we were given if any help

 

Came across the avoider this morning, No semiphores on up or down road just MAS protecting junctions and affectively a distant prior.

Also on the avoider Up road is bi di

Sleaford Station.pdf 152.85 kB · 2 downloads

 

Must have passed you somewhere, I'm on the EMR Spalding-Peterborough shuttles. On my way to Lincoln now, managed to get a couple of pictures which I'll post later today.

[iands]

8 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I’m trying to find a recent signalling diagram for the Sleaford area but not having much luck.  From what I’ve found out and photographed is that the signalling at the west end of the station is what I’d call “traditional” MAS signals with the signal head having multiple aspects.

 

The eastern end, towards the level crossing and signal box, it’s the newer style of MAS with a single aspect, but at Sleaford east junction, is there a signal with a junction route indicator prior to getting to the junction?  I’m pretty sure that there would be but I’ve looked on Google maps and YouTube and not had much luck finding one.

 

In the other direction, after travelling under the avoider, there’s a signal to protect the junction which is MAS but I can’t see what style it is.  From what I’ve discovered, it seems to be a mixture of semaphore on the avoider and MAS signals on the approaches and station vicinity.

 

Any help would be most useful.

Hi Jools, I've PM'd you. Let me know?

[berwicksfinest]

3 hours ago, great central said:

 

Must have passed you somewhere, I'm on the EMR Spalding-Peterborough shuttles. On my way to Lincoln now, managed to get a couple of pictures which I'll post later today.

I wish you had of passed me !! unfortunately I was 03.00 of Donny Belmont with 6Z69, was tucked up in Peterborough West Yard before the fliers started 

[great central]

1 minute ago, berwicksfinest said:

I wish you had of passed me !! unfortunately I was 03.00 of Donny Belmont with 6Z69, was tucked up in Peterborough West Yard before the fliers started 

 

Oh right, thought you meant later in the morning. There's a Hull Trains unit been down there the last couple of days, probably route learning.

[Grovenor]

On 07/04/2021 at 01:00, jools1959 said:

the signalling at the west end of the station is what I’d call “traditional” MAS signals with the signal head having multiple aspects.

The eastern end, towards the level crossing and signal box, it’s the newer style of MAS with a single aspect,

 

Just a word here on the meaning of "Aspect". The aspects displayed by a signal are not the number of lenses but the actual indications seen by the driver. In Uk practice these are basically Red, Yellow, Double Yellow and Green, in some cases there can be additional aspects created by flashing the lights hence flashing yellow is a different aspect from yellow.

Prior to the introduction of LEDs these aspects could be displayed by searchlight signals where a single lens could display any of Red, Yellow or Green with colour change by a moving filter. (And double yellow needed an additional lamp and lens. Or by multiple lamp signals which used a seperate lamp and lens for each colout, thus 3 for a 3 aspect signal and 4 for a four aspect signal. The introduction of LEDs has enabled reversion to the Searchlight arrangement of lenses so only one for a 3 aspect signal and two for a 4 aspect. But the signal still has 3 or 4 aspects, not 1 or 2 and the meanings to the driver are unchanged.

[TravisM]

1 hour ago, Grovenor said:

Just a word here on the meaning of "Aspect". The aspects displayed by a signal are not the number of lenses but the actual indications seen by the driver. In Uk practice these are basically Red, Yellow, Double Yellow and Green, in some cases there can be additional aspects created by flashing the lights hence flashing yellow is a different aspect from yellow.

Prior to the introduction of LEDs these aspects could be displayed by searchlight signals where a single lens could display any of Red, Yellow or Green with colour change by a moving filter. (And double yellow needed an additional lamp and lens. Or by multiple lamp signals which used a seperate lamp and lens for each colout, thus 3 for a 3 aspect signal and 4 for a four aspect signal. The introduction of LEDs has enabled reversion to the Searchlight arrangement of lenses so only one for a 3 aspect signal and two for a 4 aspect. But the signal still has 3 or 4 aspects, not 1 or 2 and the meanings to the driver are unchanged.

As a ex driver I understand fully about signalling aspects but I was asking if the signals from Sleaford station to Sleaford East junction were the more modern “LED” type or traditional MAS signal with 2,3 or 4 aspects.

 

At the east end of Sleaford station, the station staters are the LED style but as I can’t get a good look at it, is the westbound station approach signal with two route indicators LED style or traditional style?

[iands]

4 hours ago, jools1959 said:

As a ex driver I understand fully about signalling aspects but I was asking if the signals from Sleaford station to Sleaford East junction were the more modern “LED” type or traditional MAS signal with 2,3 or 4 aspects.

 

At the east end of Sleaford station, the station staters are the LED style but as I can’t get a good look at it, is the westbound station approach signal with two route indicators LED style or traditional style?

Hi Jools,

 

The signal you are referring to is SE29. At the time of the 2008 resignalling project, the signal head was a "traditional" colourlight head and was not changed to the LED type at the time. However, may have been changed since. Sorry, but this probably doesn't answer your question if you are modelling "today's" Sleaford, but if your modelling period is circa 2008, or just after, it may help.

[iands]

11 minutes ago, iands said:

Hi Jools,

 

The signal you are referring to is SE29. At the time of the 2008 resignalling project, the signal head was a "traditional" colourlight head and was not changed to the LED type at the time. However, may have been changed since. Sorry, but this probably doesn't answer your question if you are modelling "today's" Sleaford, but if your modelling period is circa 2008, or just after, it may help.

Apologies, I should also have said that SE29 is (or was) a 3-aspect colourlight, with 2 junction indicators. For clarification, it also has (had) a sub-signal with a stencil indicator.

[TravisM]

10 minutes ago, iands said:

Hi Jools,

 

The signal you are referring to is SE29. At the time of the 2008 resignalling project, the signal head was a "traditional" colourlight head and was not changed to the LED type at the time. However, may have been changed since. Sorry, but this probably doesn't answer your question if you are modelling "today's" Sleaford, but if your modelling period is circa 2008, or just after, it may help.

Thanks for the update and next week I’m going take a trip to Sleaford and see if I can photograph the signals.  I’ve looked on Google maps and hopefully there seems to be a few locations by the line side to get some decent pictures.  I use the term hopefully loosely 

[Davexoc]

Not sure you'll see the face of it unless on a westbound train. This is the back of it in May 2009....

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Davexoc
Photo restored

[iands]

18 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

Thanks for the update and next week I’m going take a trip to Sleaford and see if I can photograph the signals.  I’ve looked on Google maps and hopefully there seems to be a few locations by the line side to get some decent pictures.  I use the term hopefully loosely 

Here's a photo of SE29 from 2008. As I say, it may now have been changed to an LED type head (as well as the sub, stencil and JIs).

 

[TravisM]

6 minutes ago, iands said:

Here's a photo of SE29 from 2008. As I say, it may now have been changed to an LED type head (as well as the sub, stencil and JIs).

 

Cheeky question but would you have a picture of the eastbound signal with the route indicator for Sleaford East junction also westbound signals on the Skegness and Peterborough lines that protect the junction.

[iands]

14 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Cheeky question but would you have a picture of the eastbound signal with the route indicator for Sleaford East junction also westbound signals on the Skegness and Peterborough lines that protect the junction.

Hi Jools,

 

I have some more photos of signals at Sleaford but not of all signals, and not of any "new" ones. The photos I have were taken during the survey prior to the works and not after completion of the project. But I will dig them out and post what I find later today - even the "old" signals may be of some interest.

[TravisM]

3 hours ago, iands said:

Hi Jools,

 

I have some more photos of signals at Sleaford but not of all signals, and not of any "new" ones. The photos I have were taken during the survey prior to the works and not after completion of the project. But I will dig them out and post what I find later today - even the "old" signals may be of some interest.

Hi Ian,

 

That would be great and if they are “old” there of some interest to both me and hopefully somebody else.  I’ve attached some pictures I took recently and you can see the eastbound station starters are the newer type, but the SE29 appears not to have changed (if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it).

 

I would assume that Sleaford East junction eastbound signal with the route indicator is the same style as SE29 but without trespassing on the railway, it’s hard to find out.  Also, the westbound approach signals Sleaford East, from Skegness and Spalding, are they the older style?

 

Someone mentioned that the signal that protects Sleaford South junction towards Peterborough is still semaphore and if it is, I’ll use one of my Dapol LMS home signals for that.

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by jools1959
Spelling

[TravisM]

I’ve just been watching a video on YouTube of a cab ride on the Hastings unit from Peterborough to Lincoln and it would appear that the signalling on that route is the newer “LED” signals.  I was hoping that it would have been routed through Sleaford and I would get a good look but it was routed via the avoider

[iands]

Hi Jools,

 

Apologies for not getting back to you earlier, but here are some photos and info that I hope will be of use to you (and others).

 

The signal SE3477 and SE3483 in your second photo appear to have been renumbered since the 2008 project (or maybe a late change in that project) from SE4 and SE20 respectively.

 

The Sleaford East junction eastbound signal with the route indicator is SE44 on the 2008 scheme plan, and it was (still is?) the same style as SE29. Unfortunately I don't have a photo as this signal remained unchanged for the 2008 project and therefore didn't feature in the survey.

 

The westbound approach signals for Sleaford East, from Skegness (SE45) and Spalding (SE48), are (assuming they haven't been changed since) the older style.

 

The signal that protects Sleaford South junction towards Peterborough is still semaphore (SS21) as confirmed from a photo of Sleaford South diagram, and photo of the signal itself.

 

The rest are some photos of various signals for Sleaford West and Sleaford East.

Signal SW3

 

Signal SW5

 

Signal SW20

 

Signal SW10

 

Signal SW40 and SW22

 

Signal SE20

 

Signal SW16

 

And finally signal SW25

 

[iands]

For clarity I should have given a little more detail for Sleaford West signals SW3 and SW5 in my previous post.

 

SW3: The top arm is the Sleaford West Home board (SW3). The next arm down is Sleaford East Distant (SE2), and the third arm is Sleaford West Calling On signal SW7.

 

SW5: The top arm is the Sleaford West Home board (SW5). The next arm down is Sleaford East Distant (SE2), and the third arm is Sleaford West Calling On signal SW9.

[TravisM]

5 hours ago, iands said:

For clarity I should have given a little more detail for Sleaford West signals SW3 and SW5 in my previous post.

 

SW3: The top arm is the Sleaford West Home board (SW3). The next arm down is Sleaford East Distant (SE2), and the third arm is Sleaford West Calling On signal SW7.

 

SW5: The top arm is the Sleaford West Home board (SW5). The next arm down is Sleaford East Distant (SE2), and the third arm is Sleaford West Calling On signal SW9.

Hi Ian,

 

They are absolutely awesome pictures and gives me loads of information without resorting to trampling over muddy fields etc to try and photograph them.  Thanks again, I owe you a pint

[iands]

8 hours ago, jools1959 said:

.... I owe you a pint

You're welcome Jools. And I might just hold you to that pint, once all these covid restrictions have been lifted!

 

Cheers. 

[iands]

I have a few more photos, mostly backs of signals and one or two general views (not much detail, but at the time useful from a survey perspective). If you have any other specific queries, let me know and I'll see if I can help in any way.

 

One that may be of interest is the buffer stop on the shunt spur at Sleaford West (along side the Up line towards Rauceby) with the buffer stop light on a separate post to the side of the buffer stop. It may well have been removed now, but if you are modelling a period from a few years ago, then it could be an interesting addition (not suggesting it has to be modelled in the exact same location, just a suggestion for a "feature" somewhere on the layout).

[TravisM]

Hi Ian,

 

With the information that you have kindly sent me, I’ve made a very basic track plan for Sleaford East junction.  It’s obviously not to any scale and the only scenic part between the two sets of trees and bushes.  I’d be grateful for any positive feedback or comments.

[iands]

Hi Jools,

Looks interesting. I assume SE45 and SE48 are for controlling westbound trains (i.e. routes towards Sleaford/Nottingham/Lincoln on your diagram). Which direction is SE44 controlling movements for?

[TravisM]

1 hour ago, iands said:

Hi Jools,

Looks interesting. I assume SE45 and SE48 are for controlling westbound trains (i.e. routes towards Sleaford/Nottingham/Lincoln on your diagram). Which direction is SE44 controlling movements for?

Hi Ian,

Yes, you are correct regarding SE45 and SE48, with SE44 controlling the eastbound movements (hopefully).  I did think about including SE29 but considering the distance between the signal and the junction, I didn’t have the room to make it look realistic.  If I have room, I’ll add a extra siding in the Sleaford hidden sidings so I can run three different EMT Class 153’s on the Peterborough - Lincoln shuttles.

Edited April 10, 2021 by jools1959
Typo