RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) I’m not sure if this has been asked before but when we’re BR’s brake tenders introduced and when was the last ones withdrawn? I’ve only seen them in pictures of them working with diesels, mainly with Class’s 25 and 37, but wondered if they worked with any other classes? Did they get repainted into BR blue or most get withdrawn in BR green? Did they get a TOPS allocation and I assume that they disappeared when unfitted and vacuum freights were disbanded? I was wondering what locations they were mainly found working? Sorry for the many questions. Edited April 7, 2021 by jools1959 Spelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) Yes, some were repainted blue and they could be found almost everywhere on the LMR and ER/NER, but less so on the WR where incursions to Gloucester, Severn Tunnel, and Oxford seem to have been the general limits. Don't think they penetrated to the Southern much and I am not sure about the ScR. They worked with any and all vacuum braked locos on the LMR and ER. which had absorbed the NER by the time the blue livery was introduced, and I think it is probably fair to say they were most common in the Midlands, the industrial areas of Yorkshire, and the North East of England. I have seen them working with class 31, paired 20s, and 40, as well the classes you mention, and they probably worked with the class 26/7 when those locos were allocated to the LMR, but they had all migrated to Scotland by the blue livery period. I never saw them working with 44/5/6 or 47s, Deltics, or the WR hydraulics, but that does not mean that they never did, just that living in South Wales I was only ever a summer holiday visitor to their world except for the odd incursion to STJ. Classes 50, 56, and Kestrel had no vacuum brakes and would not have benefitted from their use. They were, I believe, introduced in the early 60s when it became apparent that some diesel classes had problems braking unfitted or part fitted class 8 and 9 freight trains, and were an effective quick fix. They lasted at least as long as such un- or part-fitted workings, late 70s early 80s. They could be marshalled ahead or behind the loco, and were low enough for the headcode to be visible. I am sure that those of greater erudition will contribute to correct and expand my knowledge soon enough. Edited April 7, 2021 by The Johnster 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 They were used, with electro-diesels, on workings from Acton Yard to the Coal Concentration Depots at Tolworth and Chessington. 1 3 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2021 And therefore presumably on cross-London transfer freights as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Don't think they penetrated to the Southern much They were still a feature of ‘inter-regionals’ arriving at Norwood Yard in the mid-70s when I started work. I can’t speak for after c1977, because I was in that area less frequently after that. Im not totally sure, but I think they were from the LM at Brent, working with Peaks. The WR trains from Acton were often Westerns, and I don’t recall tenders with them, but memory is an untrustworthy source. I don’t recall any SR resident ones, because SR was almost all ‘fitted’ trains. (I even don’t recall them to Tolworth!) Edited April 7, 2021 by Nearholmer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ramrig Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2021 Used with peaks. https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/1425/push-and-pull-diesel-style/ 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: They were still a feature of ‘inter-regionals’ arriving at Norwood Yard in the mid-70s when I started work. I can’t speak for after c1977, because I was in that area less frequently after that. Im not totally sure, but I think they were from the LM at Brent, working with Peaks. The WR trains from Acton were often Westerns, and I don’t recall tenders with them, but memory is an untrustworthy source. I don’t recall any SR resident ones, because SR was almost all ‘fitted’ trains. (I even don’t recall them to Tolworth!) I only know of the Tolworth ones because I stayed at my uncle's flat, which overlooked the line at Malden Manor. They may have worked to/from Betteshanger on coal trains to the LMR as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
73c Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 Couple of photo's here. Working over the SR at Clapham Junc. https://sremg.org.uk/diesel/dbt.shtml 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2021 Images of them on ScR as well, with Class 17s, predictably. I've seen an image of a Class 33 on SOuthern, trailing two of them in teh same train and anotehr with a 47, one in front, one behind, with train. Best Scott. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Border Reiver Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 I have a photo with them being used with Class 17 Clayton at Tyne Dock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea506 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 Were they new builds or converted from something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Andrea506 said: Were they new builds or converted from something? The bodies were newly fabricated, I think, but the bogies were recovered from redundant/scrapped coaches. The "typical" and I think most numerous type, with rounded top, used Gresley bogies. Inside the bodies was a lot of weight, typically, I believe, scrap metal (possibly from scrapped railway vehicles). Best Scott Edited April 7, 2021 by scottystitch 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea506 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 1 minute ago, scottystitch said: The bodeies were newly fabricated, I think, but the bogies were recovered from redundant/scrapped coaches. The "typical" and I think most numerous type, with rounded top, used Gresley bogies. Best Scott Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold scottystitch Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2021 Here's one at Ayr, showing the bogies... Best Scott. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ramrig Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2021 Might be worth a look through this old thread from 2012 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2021 The General/Sectional Appendix instruction was that they were only to be hauled but there are plenty of pics with them in front of the loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 I can recall seeing them around March in the early to mid - 60s, mainly with Brush 2s (class 31) of which there seemed to be a lot round there, then; no discrimination over hauling or propelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAILRAGE Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) This has to be one of my most favourite Pics I've seen. AUG 74 12. Electro-diesel 74008 at Acton, July 26 1974 | Flickr Nice one at Reading too. 46 011 | Hauling a train of track panels through Reading ( n… | Flickr Cheers Trailrage Edited April 7, 2021 by TRAILRAGE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) Contrary to the earlier post, brake tenders were used in South Wales. . The earliest I recall seeing any hereabouts, was 1971, noting a pair at Radyr, and subsequently through Cardiff General on coal trains along the South Wales main line, which took them to Acton, from where they would be tripped across London to Southern Region coal depots, probably Wimbledon, Tolworth etc. and possibly to Brent, which was also served by trains from South Wales, namely Jersey Marine and/or Radyr. . Brake tenders were still regular sights in South Wales up to around 1980, I have a poor image of a Cl.37 with three tucked inside, on a train of empty 21ton hoppers rattling through Platform 6 at Cardiff Central, bound for Radyr. . Several were scrapped in South Wales, by Woodham Bros. Barry Dock. . I do not recall seeing any used on day to day coal trains up and down the South Wales valleys, only trains that "went main line". . Brake tenders were always coupled between the loco and the train, never propelled in front of the loco. . Brian R Edited April 7, 2021 by br2975 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 All my photos are blue, on the WR or SR https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/braketender Paul 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 17 hours ago, scottystitch said: The bodies were newly fabricated, I think, but the bogies were recovered from redundant/scrapped coaches. The "typical" and I think most numerous type, with rounded top, used Gresley bogies. Inside the bodies was a lot of weight, typically, I believe, scrap metal (possibly from scrapped railway vehicles). Best Scott I have seen a picture of one partly cut up at Woodhams of Barry and the ballast weight was concrete. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, justin said: I have seen a picture of one partly cut up at Woodhams of Barry and the ballast weight was concrete. Dai must have been a bit miffed 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phatbob Posted April 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2021 My understanding is that initially they could be propelled as well as dragged and that the prohibition on propellinng them came later. I recall seeing an ED propelling one and dragging another on a southbound house coal concentration train at Clapham Jungle when I was a sproglet. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phatbob Posted April 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2021 Some intersting information here, including photos of a replica under construction showing the brake gubbins inside the beast. http://www.rvp-ltd.org.uk/projectx/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardman Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 According to the BR drawing I have dated 31/3/61 for the vehicles built at Cowlairs. The Brake tenders were built on redundant coach underframes (Greasley and Thompson), shortened and weighted with Concrete to a weight of 35 tons. They were used on unfitted freight, mainley coal traffic and pickup freights in this area. Earlier examples were built on ex LMS coach frames for use on the LMR. They were introduced because heating of the smaller wheels of diesel locomotives caused tyre cracking. In this area they were used mainly on class 24, 25, 37 and 17, but I have seen them on 40 and 45's as well. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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