KR Models announced intention: Haydock Foundry 0-6-0WT 'Bellerophon'

[Michael Hodgson]

Tinworm?

[96701]

4 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

I'm curious as to what happened to the rest of the cab?  Every picture here, other than the modern-day pictures, shows Bellerophon with a full cab.

It has changed quite a lot and quite often by the looks of it. Following on from my earlier 3/4 front view photo of it at Welland in 2014, here's the rear 3/4 view which shows the cab is now a lot more open than some of the older photos. Odd.

 

Perhaps in worked in some restricted height area sometime.

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by 96701

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, 96701 said:

Perhaps in worked in some restricted height area sometime.

 

I doubt it, not with that enormous sand dome they've added behind the steam dome and all.

[Adam88]

I think that the dome and chimney have assumed somewhat harsher profiles in recent years too.  I imagine that you must be very skillful to make a dome cover or chimney flare.

[69843]

Bellerophon scan CAD work now up:
https://www.facebook.com/krmodels.uk/posts/791684244874884

[chris p bacon]

5 hours ago, 69843 said:

Bellerophon scan CAD work now up:
https://www.facebook.com/krmodels.uk/posts/791684244874884

 

That link requires you to login to FB

[Compound2632]

 

No connection. Just a facebook user. Reproduced in the public interest - will delete if requested.

[The Stationmaster]

It might be more useful to model it in mid gear although that could depend on how they are going to assemble the valve gear. (Or is it better to have right when it's only going one way rather than not having it right whichever way it's going?)

 

Presumably it's based on the engine as in some of its preservation years as it has vacuum and steam heat bags?

[69843]

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

That link requires you to login to FB

Ahhh did not realise. Thought it was a publicly viewable link even if one did not have an account.

 

 

25 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

It might be more useful to model it in mid gear although that could depend on how they are going to assemble the valve gear. (Or is it better to have right when it's only going one way rather than not having it right whichever way it's going?)

 

Presumably it's based on the engine as in some of its preservation years as it has vacuum and steam heat bags?

I believe this to be nothing more than the initial scan data made into a CAD model. Hence gear where it is, preservation additions etc.

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, 69843 said:

I believe this to be nothing more than the initial scan data made into a CAD model. Hence gear where it is, preservation additions etc.

 

In other words, they've not yet worked out how they're actually going to model it!

[69843]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

In other words, they've not yet worked out how they're actually going to model it!

 

To give them the benefit of the doubt (a potentially risky move I know), has there ever been another outside Stephenson’s valve gear locomotive produced RTR, or is this the first?

 

The locomotive was only scanned this month. Give them just a little time first before pulling out a lame heckle. This would be like heckling Rapido over the initial scan of the APT-E and saying “In other words, they haven’t actually worked out how they are going to tilt it!”.

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, 69843 said:

pulling out a lame heckle. 

 

That wasn't my intention. I was simply observing that they're at an early stage and, as you too observe, there are some interesting challenges to producing a RTR model. I look forward to seeing how they address these challenges.

[69843]

11 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That wasn't my intention. I was simply observing that they're at an early stage and, as you too observe, there are some interesting challenges to producing a RTR model. I look forward to seeing how they address these challenges.

My apologies for misreading that. One of those times that black and white text loses the intention. 

[The Stationmaster]

47 minutes ago, 69843 said:

 

To give them the benefit of the doubt (a potentially risky move I know), has there ever been another outside Stephenson’s valve gear locomotive produced RTR, or is this the first?

 

The locomotive was only scanned this month. Give them just a little time first before pulling out a lame heckle. This would be like heckling Rapido over the initial scan of the APT-E and saying “In other words, they haven’t actually worked out how they are going to tilt it!”.

Actually it is Gooch valvegear which is slightly different from Stephenson although the basic principle is more or less the same.  Engines with outside Gooch valvegear were pretty rare in in Britain although it was quite  common in France in the relatively early days of french railways prior to the 19860s.  There is a preserved 0-6-0 at Mulhouse museum which has outside Gooch valve but i can't trace any indication that anyone has ever made an r-t-r model of it.

[Pre Grouping fan]

I don't know if this is Stephenson or Gooch valve gear but here's a video I remember seeing of a roco loco having working valve gear. If they can get close to this I would be happy

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

I don't know if this is Stephenson or Gooch valve gear but here's a video I remember seeing of a roco loco having working valve gear. If they can get close to this I would be happy

 

 

That's basically Stephenson as the reverser works on the expansion link whereas in Gooch gear the reverser works on the radius rod  (the long round rod between the expansion link and the valve rod on Bellerophon).  The expansion link is also the opposite way round - convex curve towards the front of the engine on Stephenson valve gear but towards the rear of the engine on Gooch valvegear.

 

Best sketches I could find (couldn't find a sketch of outside Stephenson gear).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[217 RIVER FLESK]

Or there is also this 0-6-0 be Fleishmann

 

 

[ikks]

Nice to see a civilised and informative discussion on such an unusual subject, my own computer is at the doctors  at  the moment ( dropped  from a great height on to a stone floor) so  I can't see whether I've placed an expression of interest yet and I can't remember (old farts syndrome)! 

MIKE 

[Pre Grouping fan]

Dont think it hurts to do it again as its not a commitment to buy however many times you have registered interest

[Edwardian]

Great to see the CAD renders and to have news that the project is in progress and has moved beyond a statement of intent. Well done and thanks to KR, I would say, for their choice of subject and to starting work on the project. 

 

My only question is 2 or 3? So completely sold on this project. 

 

 

[69843]

12 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Great to see the CAD renders and to have news that the project is in progress and has moved beyond a statement of intent. Well done and thanks to KR, I would say, for their choice of subject and to starting work on the project. 

 

My only question is 2 or 3? So completely sold on this project. 

 

 

4? 

[Edwardian]

On 26/05/2021 at 16:27, AlfaZagato said:

I'm curious as to what happened to the rest of the cab?  Every picture here, other than the modern-day pictures, shows Bellerophon with a full cab.

 

I think the preserved condition is intended to represent the first sort of cab fitted.  The IRS monograph suggests that they were originally cabless (with, presumably, just a spectacle plate). By the time people started to notice them and photograph them, they had fuller cabs with side sheets fitted.  

 

[Michael Hodgson]

Nice drawing - CJA is Cecil Allen?

[Edwardian]

40 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Nice drawing - CJA is Cecil Allen?

 

The picture (of one of Bellerophon's sister engines) is taken from the cover of the IRS volume (published 1980) and it might be a reasonable guess that it was drawn for the publication.  If so, it would not be Cecil Allen, who died in 1973.

 

 

The Acknowledgements include one Colin Ashford, so that might be the artist?  Reference was also made to the collection of the late George Alliez, who had photographed Bellerophon in 1948 (with full cab!).  But he doesn't have the right initials!

 

 

The IRS volume is the only published source I have so far come across. One always wants to know more ....! 

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Edwardian
spelling!

[DavidH]

On 27/05/2021 at 12:02, chris p bacon said:

 

That link requires you to login to FB

 

A box popped up on the browser I normally don't use for Facebook, with a tiny "Not Now" button to click at the bottom. You still end up with a banner at the bottom, but you can see what's on the page.

 

Of course, that's only testing one browser - Chrome - I can't speak for other operating systems and browsers.