Modern Short Lines motive power paint jobs.

[F-UnitMad]

Recently DanielB of this Parish posted a rather good link to a modern Short Line, the L&NW :- 

I also got the April '21 issue of Trains mag, this being the annual Short Lines & Regionals 'special' this year, and it got me thinking that in the last decade or so, maybe more, there has clearly been a big change in the appearance of the average Short Line's locomotives.

The old, well weathered, rusty & patched out paint jobs of 5th-hand elderly diesels seem to be largely a thing of the past. Most modern Short Lines locos now carry some rather spiffy, sharp and clean paint schemes, it would seem. 

Far from this being a complaint, it does seem to suggest that Short Lines are doing rather well these days - although I bet most, if not all, of them would like to do even better, with full piggy banks and black ink in the Accounts books.

It does beg the question, though - when did these natty paint jobs become the norm, rather than the exception, and in the future will running a model freelanced Short Line set in 2021, but using a motley collection of scruffy diesels, look rather unrealistic??!!  

 

 

[mdvle]

16 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

The old, well weathered, rusty & patched out paint jobs of 5th-hand elderly diesels seem to be largely a thing of the past. Most modern Short Lines locos now carry some rather spiffy, sharp and clean paint schemes, it would seem. 

Far from this being a complaint, it does seem to suggest that Short Lines are doing rather well these days - although I bet most, if not all, of them would like to do even better, with full piggy banks and black ink in the Accounts books.

It does beg the question, though - when did these natty paint jobs become the norm, rather than the exception, and in the future will running a model freelanced Short Line set in 2021, but using a motley collection of scruffy diesels, look rather unrealistic??!!  

 

I think the answer as always will be it depends, both on who owns them (and their relative financial situation at any given time) and the feelings of a given era.

 

Example, RailTex - they seemed to take pride in their shortlines, and understand the PR benefits, so in 1994 when they bought the Cape Breton line from CN in Nova Scotia and created the Alco haven Cape Breton & Central Nova Scotia Railway they gave the units not only a nice looking paint scheme but following UK tradition named the locos - 6-axles after famous people from Scotland, 4-axles after Canadian Prime Ministers if I recall correctly.  Their other shortlines all had unique identities.

 

But then RailAmerica bought RailTex, and they were the opposite - they didn't care and they would lease anything to meet needs and not care about a look.

 

Then bought by G&W, who have a "corporate" look for all of their holdings.

 

I suspect though, particularly the next time there is a downturn in the economy, that the pendulum will swing back to the "rent a wreck" look - this * website from 15 years ago seems to indicate $10k to $40k to paint a loco (300 or so person-hours of work), will be higher now and in some cases that will remain out of the budget - particularly when things like track work may provide a better return.

 

* http://www.alaskarails.org/sf/repaint/index.html

 

[jasond]

Can't say I'm 'fond' of G&Ws corporate look, but a couple of wide black lines and a growing selection of similar corporate heralds will be easy for the decal makers ... oh, don't forget the 5-gallon Floquil Orange tin (Jason where have you been for the last 20 years?).

 

For us modellers, RTR manufacturers paint choices are so often ... sorry, pause for a yawn ... UP, Santa Fe, Pennsy, etc and between the short line's worst - four shades of rust - and G&W-like best can come the RTR paint jobs with bits of decal sets in the take-away box: lines to be used covering road names, cab panels with the new reporting marks, etc.

 

No time to find a good example.  SMS's other B23-7 had some black blobs over the Santa Fe bits.  Of course when you need to sell the loco you can wash the scraps of decal off and bring a big smile to UP, Santa Fe, Pennsy purchasers' faces.  Yeah, yeah, lines, Ds, Hs and shields on LV/RDG GPs acquired by the D&H on Conrail Day almost the same.

 

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5439216 

 

Jason

[Allegheny1600]

From my observations, although the manufacturers (in H0) do still push the ‘typical’ paint schemes of UP, PRR, Santa Fe, SP and etc, there are quite a few that do cater for a number of short lines.

A few years ago now, I had been able to assemble a decent collection of Minnesota Commercial locos and stock all from RTR models. Sadly, I disposed of the lot in one of my purges.

 I have seen the manufacturers do runs of Arizona Eastern, Arkansas Missouri and so on through the alphabet, such runs are no doubt very limited and if you miss it, tough but that’s how it is these days.

I would say that if you want to represent an H0 fairly modern short line, it would be quite possible without too much repainting, redecaling but you would need to exercise patience (or modelling!).

 I have no idea what the situation is in N scale and as for the other scales, I guess everything is diy.

[mdvle]

8 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

From my observations, although the manufacturers (in H0) do still push the ‘typical’ paint schemes of UP, PRR, Santa Fe, SP and etc, there are quite a few that do cater for a number of short lines.

 

It's not so much they they are "pushing" those paint schemes, as those paint schemes sell extremely well.

 

While shortlines can be more of a gamble given the minimum number requires (sometimes commented to be 500 units).

[DanielB]

I'm more than happy to have a go at recreating shortline colours - it's the decals (or lack thereof) that usually puts me off.

 

 

[jasond]

Dan, I've had good service from Highball Graphics and they do custom decals.

Jason

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

On 11/04/2021 at 11:28, Allegheny1600 said:

 I have seen the manufacturers do runs of Arizona Eastern...

 

Who was that, and what stock was it?  An old favourite line of mine, visited several times, lost interest after the B boats and G&W took over.

 

 

 

 

 

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Dr G-F,

My apologies! It seems I am mistaken on that particular road, firstly the livery as shown by your pictures is not what I had in mind nor can I find anything that had been made on eBay, the only thing that is coming out is this;

https://www.trainworld.com/search/?bymanufacturer=&bycategory=&byscale=33&road_name=1221&electronics=&engine=
One boxcar does not make much of a starter for a layout!

 The only thing I can think of is that I was thinking of Arizona and California, even then I still cannot find anything on eBay, sorry. I’m sure I saw something “Arizona” though, at some point.

Cheers,

John

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Thanks John, I'm actually relieved as I won't have to go back to modelling US HO!  The AZER was a great line.  They even had an E8 at one time...

[John M Upton]

5 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

Who was that, and what stock was it?  An old favourite line of mine, visited several times, lost interest after the B boats and G&W took over.

 

 

 

Is it just me having spent too much time pouring over old GP photos the last couple of weeks or does that their loco have something distinctively SP about it?  It’s the notch in the nose and the plate up top that attracts the attention.

Edited April 13, 2021 by John M Upton

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Hi John,

 

The lineage is not quite what you might think...

 

#2503 is a GP35, built for Western Pacific and ex-UP

#2039 is an ex SSW GP20E

#2501 is an ex WP/UP GP35

#2046 is ex SSW GP20E

 

While I was there they also had a unit in NYSW paint and other odds and ends.  I have pics somewhere.

 

Dull as ditchwater now, orange G&W B40-8s last time I visited.  

 

The Az shortlines are all fantastic.  I commend any of them for a couple of days exploration.  If we are ever allowed out to play again, of course.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Allegheny1600]

3 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

 

 The only thing I can think of is that I was thinking of Arizona and California, even then I still cannot find anything on eBay, sorry. I’m sure I saw something “Arizona” though, at some point.

Cheers,

John

Here you go, I got part of it right!

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG86183

It looks to me as though modelling a short line does indeed require patience and fortitude not to mention modelling skills.

 I think I’m guilty of thread drift though as the OP was about how clean modern short lines are, look to numerous lines now days and you’ll see modern, freshly painted units in great condition, see these beauties;

 

Cheers,

John

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Crikey, SD70ACe... thats stretching my notions of a shortline quite a bit!

 

Also they are brand new.

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Crikey, SD70ACe... thats stretching my notions of a shortline quite a bit!

 

Also they are brand new.

Probably leased, which means they can come out of revenue rather than the capital account. Also means no need to worry about depreciation and writing off: when they get a bit old, lease some new ones.

[mdvle]

3 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Is it just me having spent too much time pouring over old GP photos the last couple of weeks or does that their loco have something distinctively SP about it?  It’s the notch in the nose and the plate up top that attracts the attention.

 

You got it essentially correct.

 

3 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

The lineage is not quite what you might think...

 

#2503 is a GP35, built for Western Pacific and ex-UP

#2039 is an ex SSW GP20E

#2501 is an ex WP/UP GP35

#2046 is ex SSW GP20E

 

So, the SSW was the St. Louis Southwestern Railway, more commonly known as the "Cotton Belt", and it was a subsidiary of the SP from 1932 until the SP simply folded it directly into the SP in 1992.

Edited April 13, 2021 by mdvle

[mdvle]

2 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Crikey, SD70ACe... thats stretching my notions of a shortline quite a bit!

 

Also they are brand new.

 

It more ways than one, the Northshore Mining Railroad isn't a short line in what most would consider a short line - it's only purpose is to move taconite from the mine to the processing plant on a private 47 mile railroad.

 

But the combination of long trains - think 156 cars - and the finances of the mine owner mean buying/leasing new units to save on fuel consumption is a viable choice that may not be available to a more money challenged traditional short line.

[doctor quinn]

On 13/04/2021 at 14:21, Allegheny1600 said:

Hi Dr G-F,

My apologies! It seems I am mistaken on that particular road, firstly the livery as shown by your pictures is not what I had in mind nor can I find anything that had been made on eBay, the only thing that is coming out is this;

https://www.trainworld.com/search/?bymanufacturer=&bycategory=&byscale=33&road_name=1221&electronics=&engine=
One boxcar does not make much of a starter for a layout!

 The only thing I can think of is that I was thinking of Arizona and California, even then I still cannot find anything on eBay, sorry. I’m sure I saw something “Arizona” though, at some point.

Cheers,

John

The paint scheme lives on, though it’s starting to look a little scruffy http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5424490

[Wendell1976]

On 11/04/2021 at 04:28, Allegheny1600 said:

From my observations, although the manufacturers (in H0) do still push the ‘typical’ paint schemes of UP, PRR, Santa Fe, SP

 

On 11/04/2021 at 13:18, mdvle said:

 

It's not so much they they are "pushing" those paint schemes, as those paint schemes sell extremely well.

 

In my opinion, the top four former railroads that sell locomotives really well in HO scale is the Southern Pacific Railroad, Santa Fe Railway, Burlington Northern Railroad, and the Pennsylvania Railroad. Number five would be either the Chicago & North Western Railway, Consolidated Rail Corporation(Conrail), or the Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad. Think about it. All of these aforementioned former railroads had nice and timeless paint schemes on their locomotives.

 

Wendell

Idaho, USA 

[Night Train]

Love the livery that Aberdeen, Carolina and Western Railway uses.

 

 

[DanielB]

Drayton Blackgrove of Scaletrains has his own YouTube channel, Delay in Block Productions, and there are some fantastic videos focusing on Shortlines.

 

 

https://youtu.be/ZIzXJMyw6fE

 

And of course, the return of The Rock:

 

https://youtu.be/OUWU7gGf6EU

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

3 hours ago, DanielB said:

And of course, the return of The Rock:

Thanks for posting, Dan. I had no idea 'The Rock' was "back", as it were. Very interesting video!!

[doctor quinn]

5 hours ago, DanielB said:

 

And of course, the return of The Rock:

 

https://youtu.be/OUWU7gGf6EU

 

 

The new Rock is a class act, I always liked the blue paint scheme 

[Ben B]

It's a very interesting thread this- I admit to not knowing a lot about short lines, but do we have anything roughly equivalent in the UK?  Are they like an entirely private railway/industry-owned line, infrastructure and all, or is it like a TOC operating services as a private bidder for a contract on a national/state-owned railway?

 

Would the equivalent be the rare, surviving operations here in the UK where a private 08 or Sentinel works exchange traffic to a yard from a factory?

 

[z4driver]

There's no real equivalent here in the UK. Some 'short' lines can be 100s of miles long!