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Return to model railways - Low Level fiddleyard design (good / bad?)


AWilson
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Hello all,

 

I am returning to the hobby after circa 15 years (previously had a basic layout at parents property but this got moth balled and stored) I have recently got the bug again and decided to build a layout in my own workshop/shed which will become my model railway room.

 

I'm planning on a multi level layout with a fiddleyard/storage yard on level 0 above which I intend to build a more scenic level/main running lines at level 1 and possibly even a branch above that at level 2 (eventually). My current thinking is this will be a roundy roundy layout .

 

No fixed location although era will be circa 1980 BR blue (mainly diesels) but not fixed in stone - most of my existing stock (from years ago dusted down from years in storage) is BR blue. 

 

My low level fiddle yard track plan is attached, any constructive criticism and/or thoughts appreciated. The current plan/thinking is to have this wired in blocks with computer control moving trains around the fiddleyard/stoarge sidings and at the right hand side will be a helix or incline around the adjacent room which will allow the change in level from level 0 to level 1. At the current time of writing/thinking all of level 0 will be storage/sidings. An eight car HST will fit comfortably on each siding . The current plan is to block section the storage sidings so for example the siding loop "U" nearest the middle (walkaround centre area - access door with lift out section to top left) will be split into three blocks allowing three trains to be stabled on that track.

 

I have already built some baseboards for this and hope in the not too distant future to start putting down some track.

 

I am hoping to use as much of my existing stock/track etc as possible to reduce costs, hence (at least initially) I'm making use of some set track points  as I already have them and everything is so expensive these days ;)

 

No fixed plans at moment and it will probably evolve as time goes on.

 

 

 

WorkshopRoom (V6).jpg

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This looks really optimistic:

 

I would say these will be low level storage roads, not a fiddleyard as you will struggle to marshal trains without a good deal of headroom.  

 

Visibility may also be an issue, so you may need to deploy cameras to enable you to "see" whats going on in the further corners of the storage roads.

 

A helix sounds great in practice, if your plan is for 4mm/OO gauge, and each square represents a 1 foot - the radius of your helix looks to be approximately 18-20" - this will likely be a challenge for your locos to negotiate - a quick search of RMWeb for helix related articles will provide a wealth of information.

 

Others will be more knowledgeable than I, but this looks quite ambitious and  optimistic, especially as this is your first layout for many years.  You might want to consider something a little less complicated?   If you decide to go ahead with your plan, good luck and keep us posted.


Steve

 

 

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I too would have concerns.  It has always seemed to me that it would be the devil's own business to handle a derailment or even uncoupling in the storage sidings.  The problems of helixes also seems to be an issue.

 

Despite all of that, the concept is very common in continental Europe and it seems many modellers make it work.  Why H0 should work when 00 supposedly does not remains a mystery.  In the past perhaps better traction systems may have been the reason (motors powered to all drive wheels or both bogies for example) but today I would have thought such differences had largely disappeared.  

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Hello all,

 

Thanks for the above comments.

 

Just to clarify - yes level 0 will effectively be storage roads, not a fiddle yard (apologies if I used the wrong term, I'm sure you can forgive me (hopefully))  - I won't be fiddling with stock down there, just parking up locomotives and trains. I'm be minimising space between levels to reduce the inclines between levels and there wont be space to fiddle.

 

Yes I may well fit cameras, I already have CCTV in the room which I installed myself and that wont be a problem for me. Having said that, I own a copy of train controller silver (from years ago - I wouldn't buy it at todays pricing level, but I have a licensed copy already and intend to use that to control the fiddle yard by computer block control so visual eyes on wont be 100% essential at all times.

 

Just need to add that it wont be a circular helix , it will be a gentle as possible incline 2  to 3 degree max incline rise. The plan shows a circular helix but that was just an initial doodle in AnyRail planning software. The adjacent room is a small annex / boiler room and I plan to use the space in there to gradually change level heights byrunning around that room. I can also use some of the main model room perimeter space to change height by running around the room an create an incline in the main Model Railway room to ensure the incline is acceptable and not too much of a challenge to locomotives.

 

All feedback appreciated, thanks again. 

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Thanks Alister. It may well be a slow progress project and (obviously) I’ll only be tackling one level at a time. I’m not in any rush and I hope to learn and I’m sure I’ll make some mistakes as I go along my journey. It may be that level 0 is the only level for a little bit (storage lines) but at the very least I’ll still have an oval to run trains in a circle (appreciate this isn’t to everyone’s taste but hey it’s my model railway room) . My master plan is to make level 1 the main level with a twin track main line, station, etc, etc,  but I’ll get to that when I get to it. I may make level 1 on some sort of open frame with removable sections ( so that I can access the lower level 0 storage roads from above level 1 in case or derailments below). I’ll look out for any inspiration from others on here as I’m sure someone somewhere will have done something similar.

 

I may be optimistic but hey why not challenge myself :-)

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its been a while since I used low level storage roads, they do work the only things to be aware of are:

 

  • how do you keep the rails clean or clean them when needed?
  • if required can you access to remove derailed stock (usually not too hard even if you have to get other stuff out of the way, tension lock couplers can be a pig though), if you have enough overhead to clear point motors and wires its not too bad to get a hand in
  • make sure you test the tracks extensively at higher and lower speeds before sticking anything above them
  • at least have a plan for how to get at the track in future should you need to (e.g. removable scenic bits above, or having the boards above actually removable in sections)

and one that caught me out

  • plan to constrain wires dangling from the layers above

and another than got me

  • make sure you can slide bits of cardboard in to protect the track when ballasting above since glue will find its way through

incidentally, very nice railway room

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Thanks for the valuable feedback aleopardstail. 
 

I have (somewhere) one of those CMX clean machine trucks/track cleaners so can run that around. In worst case I’d have to remove levels above to access level 0 for a deep clean. I think I’ll incorporate some means of removing upper section boards so that (occasionally) I can access lower levels for maintenance, etc.

 

yes derailed stock could be an issue, I think ill have access panels from above at various points (as well as limited side access) to assist in rerailing when the inevitable happens.

 

good tip on track testing, yes I plan to do extensive running/testing before constructing a level above level 0. 
 

yes removable panels above or removable section board on level 1 may be a way forward to access level 0 in the case of an emergency!

 

yeap again upper cable management critical. Will need to cable tie and secure any wires to prevent snags between levels. Hopefully good planning and good practice will minimise issues (famous last words).

 

good tip re ballasting, I’ll have to remember that one, although it will be a while before I’m doing any of that!

 

thanks for comments on railway room, it was meant to be my workshop but I think I’ll enjoy it better as my potential railway room! :D

Edited by AWilson
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  • 3 months later...

Hello all, well its been a long while since I posted anything on here, however I am making progress on the layout which is under (slow) construction and level 1 (or should I call that level 0 - the lowest level storage sidings) has been built, although it may look slightly different to any track plans previously posted. I have utilised a lot of track, points, point motors and dcc accessory decoders, etc,  from a much earlier layout (which was only part constructed over 10 years ago) and attempted to reuse as much as possible things that have been in storage.

 

Storage Level track in place, I'm now testing and setting up the computer control of the sidings /storage tracks, which are wired in blocks for computer block detection and control of the storage yard. oh and slowly getting my old fleet of locomotives dusted down and back in service. 

 

Progress pictures to follow should anyone be interested.

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A few photos from over the past months as things progress. I will add more commentary when I get chance. Baseboard level 0 development and track laying. And collection of salvagers electronic bits from

a previous layout which are being put to a new home on the new layout (DCC accessory decoders, block detection, circuit breakers, etc, etc. Reuse/recycle . 
 

I will also upload some test engine running vids, when I get chance. Although I’ll have to convert the file format first for upload. PS apologies for sudden deluge of pics. I will post infrequently and randomly I am

afraid when I get the time & opportunity.

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Arrh I realised I need to simply paste the YouTube link text into the post and not use the link button that looks like a chain link icon. Ok silly me. Hopefully I can embed you tube clips now! :-)

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On 10/04/2021 at 23:34, aleopardstail said:

if required can you access to remove derailed stock (usually not too hard even if you have to get other stuff out of the way, tension lock couplers can be a pig though), if you have enough overhead to clear point motors and wires its not too bad to get a hand in

 

Bit of advice. Make sure that any point motors or other equipment belonging to level 1 have no sharp edges or pins etc protruding downwards, or if unavoidable, guard them with cardboard.  This is to prevent nasty cuts when reaching in to derailed stock.  Don't ask me how I know this lol. 

 

Layout plan and videos look great. This should be a great layout as it progresses.

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