ballasting tips or where I went wrong !

[heavymetalwagons]

Been building some 4mm grampus wagons and wanted to put some slag ballast loads in them and while looking on here read a few different threads about successes and failures 

liked the idea of using "silver" (kiln dried) sand as I am able to get for FREE and have tried various methods of staining it 

tried spraying some with primer grey (turned out a bit dark) but looked ok and matt black which looks ok but I think I rushed a bit and didn't cover very well and to do right will take a few coats and a fair bit of faffing i.e. raking between coats etc

Then tried using black "cement dye"  at a ratio of 4 sand 1 dye 1 water and it looks really good and could have maybe used less dye BUT some of the dye seems to be coming off every time I handle it (but the sand still looks ok)  but on a layout could be a problem  ie dirty wheels etc , not sure if  when its glued down it will/would seal the dye in?

One word of warning though the sand gets everywhere !!!! (even when tiring to be careful)

tried a test load of un-dyed sand using pva glue then painted using water colour paints didn't seem to finish right may try poster paints (like the ones "we" used at school ?.

regards to pva glue and the washing liquid turning ballast green they now make a clear (no dye or perfume) liquid from fairy but also seen wilkos have some also or MAYBE try the yellow (it looks a lot lighter and may dry clearer)

ITs strange how "we" never really notice ballast too much until we need too .Modern ballast is defferently different to the "older stuff ,even as a child i remember the ballast in hull been the type with loads of little holes in it on the main lines (everything else been "cinder"/black ash 

on the few photos i have of sculcoates lane hull in the 1980s the main line shows grey ballast with stains of brown along the tracks and a bit of a green moss at the edges where the undergrowth is .but a clean line from some steps to a junction box ie walking on it has cleaned it a bit 

 

will keep experimenting a bit may try "grano" chippings as i can possibly get them for free or at least only £5 a bag (bargain!!) or buy some "proper" ballast from different suppliers and different sizes and mix my own blends ??

[ikcdab]

I loaded my wagons with normal 4mm scale granite ballast fixed down with the diluted pva. Traditional method. Worked a treat and never had any discoloration issues.

[Pete the Elaner]

I remember seeing my granite-based ballast in the 80s & 90s turn slightly green when I stuck it with PVA. Someone posted on here that "mine isn't green - look" & their photo showed green ballast! I found Copydex an alternative which offered different properties - it gives ballast a very slight brown hue (which brake dust does so I am happy with that ) & also does not set rock hard like PVA, which is a resin.

I don't think it is the green is caused by the colour of the washing up liquid. I think it was a reaction with the PVA itself.

 

I would always recommend making small samples of anything you intend to do. In your case, make 1 load first before making them for the whole rake & finding that you don't like the result.

[heavymetalwagons]

many thanks for the replies (and the others that looked) 

see pete i was thinking its the washing up liquid not the pva that was the problem !!!! at least "we" now know a little more 

the pva I'm using is =no nonsense from screwfix or tool station  and it seems ok but I suppose all pva must leave some sort of shine/tint when used .have got some copydex also so may try that as a comparison test 

managed to get some grano chippings form work (2 ton bags sat there not been used for a year!) 

sieved the bigger bits out (about 1 third to a quarter ) and the rest once dyed out looks good maybe a little dark and maybe too much really fine dust so may have to sieve again  but still !!!

i will try to take some photos and if they come out all right will post 

[heavymetalwagons]

managed to take some photos of my ballast all taken from same angle and same settings .so i hope they look ok !!

first one "silver sand" sprayed medium grey primer

second   silver sand sprayed mat black 

third silver sand dyed (cement dye) black

forth "grano" chippings sieved twice =once to get the big stuff out then again to remove the dust

fifth "proper ebay buy of ballast just as it came  

[Dieselbob]

The silver sand looks pretty good, a lot better than I thought it would, not much different to the bought stuff.

Be careful with cheap pva, the best i have found is Evo stick wood glue (Resin W in green bottle) watered down, dear but the best usually is.

Bob

[heavymetalwagons]

Thought the grano chippings looked ok. Well colour wise at least, but looks too big for 4mm. Think it would great for 7mm. May try just using just the dust

Maybe try two silver sand  sprayed dark grey and light grey then mix together 

Edited April 25, 2021 by heavymetalwagons
Thick as

[heavymetalwagons]

2 hours ago, Dieselbob said:

The silver sand looks pretty good, a lot better than I thought it would, not much different to the bought stuff.

Be careful with cheap pva, the best i have found is Evo stick wood glue (Resin W in green bottle) watered down, dear but the best usually is.

Bob

To be fair one bottle wound properly do an whole layout plus all the other uses we have for it (let alone sticking wood together) 

[ikcdab]

The best pva I have found is the gorilla glue. Again, not cheap but a little goes a long way. I think it's roughly £5 for half a litre at Screwfix. Dries out quickly, rock solid and no discolouration.

Edited April 28, 2021 by ikcdab

[Vistisen]

I use thinned copydex (about 1:2 ratio glue to water) to glue track and ballast especially arround my handbuilt points. I paint using cheap paintbruhes to paint a THIN layer of copydex on the closed foam track bed. Then I lay the track on it and straight away cover it in ballast I then put a longish strip of ply wood on the rail and weights on it for about 5 minutes, after that time I hoover off the loose ballast and then replace the plywood strips and weights again for a few hours until it is completely dry. Its not perfect but it is quick. There are three reasons why I use copydex rather than pva:

1. It does not set rigid and allows for the track bed to move a little bit which helps prevent heat changes in the room from warping the track.
2. It makes the trains run much quieter as the track bed has a rubber layer between it and the boards (even noticeable on foam beds).
3. You can remove track without desgtroying it. You can also 'peel' the ballast up is you need to adjust it arround points. 

[ShepTuba]

I’m sure this is a common one but I did a test ballast (Expo brown ballast) on some weathered o gauge track and spent ages tamping it into place/shape (level with the sleepers) sprayed the ballast with a water/washing up liquid solution then used a pipette to apply diluted PVA…the standard procedure…the ballast expanded and made a right mess of the whole thing…any ideas 

[heavymetalwagons]

The only guess i,ve got is the expo ballast is Cork based and has expanded with the water

The outer edges look ok through 

Maybe keep it low between the sleepers then after wetting and pva top up if necessary 

Only suggestions though i, ve no previous experience 

[letterspider]

Next time don't add yeast...

 

[Trog]

Ballast from different quarries came in different colours, particularly when dusty. Nuneaton ballast had a pink hue, Loughborough was brown, that place in North Wales I can not be bothered to look up the spelling of tended to be cleaner more flaky and of a blueish colour. We also sometimes got ballast with a greenish dust attached but I am not sure where that came from, possibly Meldon.

[heavymetalwagons]

In the 70s the ballast used up north was steel slag with little holes in it. As kids we used to throw it on the ground and it smelt a bit like stink bombs. From memory it was dark grey to black. At least two places sold it from scunthorpe as advertised in a br permanent way report book I've got