CLass 08 liveries

[AlexClass4F]

When i bought a class 08 from Dapol in 0 scale , i was thinking to buy for another example of this locomotive.

I have the 3305 from BR in green livery with zebra stripes , what do you suggest wich locomotive i can used with the other,

as a sort of brother or sister friendship ?

What livery is the most go together with the one i had ? The black 13003 or the blue yellow one ?.

 

Thanks !!

[nightstar.train]

Either really. The black livery was before the green and the blue after. But there was a lot of overlap as not everything gets repainted straight away. Or get another green one and renumber it. 

[The Johnster]

Does your 3305 have a D prefix to the number?  If not, this suggests a loco in post-1968 condition, which would mean a rail blue playmate is a little more likely. 

[AlexClass4F]

It have the D prefix to the number , i believe that reference to D= Diesel , maybe i have wrong, i think de blue/yellow D-number version of Dapol an ´overlap´ version is .

 

 

[Aire Head]

A blue version with a D prefix would be the best match that isn’t identical.

[The Johnster]

D as a prefix indeed meant diesel and E meant electric.  The original BR numbering system was as follows:-

 

1-9999 ex GWR locomotives (because of the cast number plates)

10000-19999 diesel and gas turbine locomotives (following on from LMS 10000)

20000- 29999 electric locomotives

30001-39999 ex Southern Rly locos

40001-59999 ex LMS locos

60001-69999 ex LNER locos

70000-99999 BR standard and WD locos

 

This was changed after the 1955 modernisation plan to the D and E prefix system. Diesel and electric locos built prior to this kept their original 5 digit numbers, but shunting locos ordered by BR and already in service were adapted to the new system by having the first digit, 1, replaced by the D prefix as they were overhauled and went through paint shops.  
 

When steam locos were removed from the network in 1968 (we will ignore the Vale of Rheidol for now), the D prefixes were painted over on diesel locos; the electrics retained their Es.  IIRC the last of the class 50 build were delivered post steam and without D prefixed numbers.  The next development was the introduction of the TOPS system which is still in use. 
 

Diesel locos with cast D prefix numbers, that is, the Hymeks and Westerns, had the cast D removed in the case of the Hymeks (sometimes with the fixing bolt holes left in place as unfulfilled as my hopes and dreams) and painted over on Westerns but still visible.  These locos survived into the TOPS era but never carried TOPS numbers.  
 

So, your D3316 represents a loco painted between the introduction of blue livery in 1966 and the end of steam in 1968.  D3305 represents a loco painted post 1956, the introduction of green livery for 08s, but before 1958 when the later style of ‘ferret and dartboard’ totem came into use, as running post 1961 when the electrification warning flashes were applied.  It is possible that they might have run in these liveries at the same time; overhauls (and thus full repaints) were carried out on a mileage basis in those days and shunting locos took a long tile to accrue mileage, but a green liveried loco with the 1958-66 type of totem would be much more likely.  This may mean your renumbering the model to carry such a totem, and I would advise working from a photo in this case as there were a number of detail variations within the class; different shapes and positions of the boxes on the running plate, steel instead of wooden cab doors, plain or red painted coupling rods, that sort of thing.  Locos working in some hump marshalling yards had radio aerials. 

 

[Steamport Southport]

There was still BR Black 08s with D prefixes well into the 1970s. Quite a few of the early ones went for scrap without being repainted or getting their TOPS number.

 

http://www.railway-centre.com/uploads/7/2/2/3/7223531/class_08-13_fleet_list.pdf

 

 

 

Jason

[AlexClass4F]

Thanks for the info and help with , i just have bought the D3316, with some extra goods wagons,for the future i´m gonna build an extansion with more activitys for both 08´s.

[SR71]

On 14/04/2021 at 12:34, The Johnster said:

So, your D3316 represents a loco painted between the introduction of blue livery in 1966 and the end of steam in 1968.  D3305 represents a loco painted post 1956, the introduction of green livery for 08s, but before 1958 when the later style of ‘ferret and dartboard’ totem came into use, as running post 1961 when the electrification warning flashes were applied.  It is possible that they might have run in these liveries at the same time; overhauls (and thus full repaints) were carried out on a mileage basis in those days and shunting locos took a long tile to accrue mileage, but a green liveried loco with the 1958-66 type of totem would be much more likely.  This may mean your renumbering the model to carry such a totem, and I would advise working from a photo in this case as there were a number of detail variations within the class; different shapes and positions of the boxes on the running plate, steel instead of wooden cab doors, plain or red painted coupling rods, that sort of thing.  Locos working in some hump marshalling yards had radio aerials. 

 

 

Googling to find an answer and of course it brings me right back to rmweb as always. I have a Bachmann 08 No 13365 with the ferret and dartboard. Is that neverwazza from your description?

 

I'd like, and was looking for info on, the possibility of renumbering to a green 08 with the unicycling lion. Until I found your post everything I was finding was suggesting it would have to be black/early logo or green/late logo.

[bécasse]

On 14/04/2021 at 14:17, Steamport Southport said:

There was still BR Black 08s with D prefixes well into the 1970s. Quite a few of the early ones went for scrap without being repainted or getting their TOPS number.

 

Sorry, that is nonsense. The detailed history of the 350hp shunters (they weren't all 08s) is a minefield but even in general terms only 13000-13259 plus 13298-13315 were ever black and they would have all been painted plain green at their first (post summer 1956) overhaul, only retaining the 1949 BR totem if that overhaul was before December 1956. Wasp stripes were applied at overhauls (and only at overhauls) from March 1960 while electrification flashes were applied from the summer of that year (but at depots as well as at overhauls so they at least appeared fleet-wide very quickly). Historically, therefore, a loco cannot have had wasp stripes and still been black, although dirty green locos sometimes appeared to be black when photographed in colour - there is an excellent example of this on page 70 of the November 2022 Model Rail where D3319 is alleged to be black despite having been delivered in green; ironically the article is titled Know your liveries!

 

There are significant features (notably the lack of a RH vacuum-exhauster box and vertical handrails on side panels) on these Dapol models which would rule out any number before 13245, and there are other detailed features (for example, windscreen wiper motor box on cab sides and the "kinked" lighting conduit on the cab back) which are inappropriate but are, at least, readily correctable.

 

Finally, although there do seem to have been Dapol models which display the correct painted number style, the two models illustrated appear to bear a style which was applied to only a single loco D3170, all other locos having either a small D or a condensed font instead of Gill Sans (which resulted from the space on the cab side being too narrow to take a full size D number in Gill Sans unless there was a 1 in the number).

 

The blue model is potentially the most correct, it would require the addition of windscreen wipers (which were a common but not universal retro-fit), the correct condensed style of painted number (either with or without the D, dropped post-1968) and correction of the route of the top light conduit on the cab back - all fairly simple alterations. It would also be necessary to avoid locos delivered to the Western or Southern Regions which had different lamp iron arrangements.

 

The Dapol models bear all the hallmarks of having been based on locos in preservation whose detailed rendering is rarely precisely correct.

 

Incidentally, if anyone thinks that I am running down Dapol unfairly, I would point out that both Hornby and Bachmann have made similar errors in 4mm scale, with no Hornby model precisely replicating any one of the huge 350hp shunter class and most Bachmann ones being wrong too. As I said before, the prototype class is a minefield - they may all look alike but .............

[melmoth]

35 minutes ago, bécasse said:

Sorry, that is nonsense. The detailed history of the 350hp shunters (they weren't all 08s) is a minefield but even in general terms only 13000-13259 plus 13298-13315 were ever black and they would have all been painted plain green at their first (post summer 1956) overhaul, only retaining the 1949 BR totem if that overhaul was before December 1956. Wasp stripes were applied at overhauls (and only at overhauls) from March 1960 while electrification flashes were applied from the summer of that year (but at depots as well as at overhauls so they at least appeared fleet-wide very quickly). Historically, therefore, a loco cannot have had wasp stripes and still been black

 

I'm sorry, but this sweeping generalisation also contains a deree of nonsense. At least two 08s were recorded as receiving wasp stripes while in black livery.

[stovepipe]

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by stovepipe

[Nearholmer]

There’s a long discussion of the history of wasp stripes in here 

The upshot is that the standardised form of wasp stripes was almost certainly manadated for any shunting loco new to traffic on or after 1 January 1960, with existing locos to be dealt with as soon as practicable thereafter. The second part of that translated into some locos having the stripes painted on almost immediately, whether the basic livery was black or green, and some lingering with no stripes at all until 1966/67, possibly even later.

 

If you look in the “08 prototype photos” thread, you will see endless variations.

[SR71]

7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

If you look in the “08 prototype photos” thread, you will see endless variations.

I have been through but the pictures relating to my question are understandably in black and white or unfortunately lost to that event...

 

Though I have just spotted that the first image in @Steamport Southports  link is green with the earlier crest. Happy days!

 

 

[Holby Railway]

slightly off topic, i just purchased a Bachmann class 08 (08 880) in Inter City Swallow livery, is this a spoof or did any 08's actually carry Swallow Livery ?

[SR71]

44 minutes ago, Holby Railway said:

slightly off topic, i just purchased a Bachmann class 08 (08 880) in Inter City Swallow livery, is this a spoof or did any 08's actually carry Swallow Livery ?

 

 

🙂

[Holby Railway]

Thank you, so now the question is did 08 880 carry this livery, i shall now leave her alone anyway as i know now at least one did carry it 😇

[SR71]

7 minutes ago, Holby Railway said:

Thank you, so now the question is did 08 880 carry this livery, i shall now leave her alone anyway as i know now at least one did carry it 😇

 

 

Google* is your friend 🙂

 

*In this case actually Duckduckgo.

[Holby Railway]

too kind THANKS 😇

[Wickham Green too]

Erm .......... 08.800 isn't 08.880 - or is it ?

[Nearholmer]

That’s what you get when you stick a Triang motor bogie under a Triang diesel shunter body. It just isn’t convincing.

[nightstar.train]

23 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Erm .......... 08.800 isn't 08.880 - or is it ?

 

The Bachmann release is 08800, I think Holby Railway has made a typo (twice). 

[SR71]

23 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

That’s what you get when you stick a Triang motor bogie under a Triang diesel shunter body. It just isn’t convincing.

 I think it's Joef http://www.joueftrains.com/839.htm

 

On 24/05/2023 at 22:58, Wickham Green too said:

Erm .......... 08.800 isn't 08.880 - or is it ?

DOH!

 

23 minutes ago, nightstar.train said:

 

The Bachmann release is 08800, I think Holby Railway has made a typo (twice). 

 

...not DOH?

[Halvarras]

Or the previous owner of @Holby Railway's model renumbered it from 08800 to 08880.........in which case........did 08880 ever carry Inter City Swallow livery?!

 

(Rapid exit, stage left 🤐!)

[Pannier Tank]

On 24/05/2023 at 21:52, Holby Railway said:

Thank you, so now the question is did 08 880 carry this livery, i shall now leave her alone anyway as i know now at least one did carry it 😇

 

Looking at this link, probably not!  Also, it was a Tinsley Loco.

 

http://www.wnxx.com/images/scrap/index.php?level=picture&id=804

 

According to WNXX 08880 was withdrawn from Tinsley's FSNT pool back in July 1996 has been disposed of at Norton's Liverpool, RIP. 22/11/05

Edited May 26, 2023 by Pannier Tank