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Narrow Gauge Beginnings - getting started in HOn30 and H0e


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“Finished”

After the rail paint had dried, I gave the track another clean and then finally brought it inside:

 

4EA91AF1-FCCA-4247-9410-2F5066022E16.jpeg.eb22bace0177a11ec2f7584c78a3b96e.jpeg

 

C2F66232-3D6D-4636-BDB0-AC3FB79A2526.jpeg.8e9ae6a65fa232f830a2b4141c0f759a.jpeg

 

8479BED8-E1D7-494D-B340-EFCC52B8A0B1.jpeg.d9d81c1434b6a61f673a89fc1fd59132.jpeg

 

62D1BB99-4638-4BB8-8FBB-68AAD97E40F7.jpeg.7f7cfb12fbc6a962d230e856cb579a15.jpeg

 

I’ve mentioned before that photos aren’t easy to take in the layout space, as the baseboards go in front of the window, but it was still very nice to see the MV8 on a short goods train at last.  It’s only a small first step, but I do have a layout.

 

It’s time for me to say thank you for the encouragement and advice.  I’ve plenty more builds, projects and the larger H0e layout to work on (as well as my long-term paused SG projects) so while this project is complete, I’m sure there’ll be another train along soon:

 

822823B5-8214-4AF5-9592-346257A992C7.jpeg.293556dc88a6132fc53ba3804bce96c3.jpeg

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Well, the idea of having a gap didn’t last too long:

 

632DAD46-26E4-4C28-B5D9-60405609FEFD.jpeg.d1a231ac35f345a204d617884e228913.jpeg

 

These two sheets of 9mm MDF were used as packing for a mirror delivered to my eldest’s new address - both my adult kids looked at it and thought the same thing: “Dad’ll use these for railway boards.”  Maybe not my first choice material, but free, and wouldn’t want to disappoint the children now, would I?  Still using up the paint I bought on discount last year!
 

(Not sure what these will be used for yet, but it’s not like I’ve run out of ideas…! 2 off 13.5” x 44.5”)

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Returning to the opportunity given to me with two free MDF baseboards, I started by thinking that the only thing I’ve been missing out on while getting started in Narrow Gauge modelling is somewhere for my SG trains to run.  Family life rather resembles an experiment in Brownian motion, with the one constant being that my space constraints are unlikely to be relaxed any time in the next four years (at least).  So I thought I’d see first of all what I might be able to do by way of a small H0 switching layout, placing some of the stock and buildings I had to hand on the boards by way of a size guide:

 

 

642F5124-003C-4316-9701-B1A346325759.jpeg.a43722ea88d3f9e13c9a6b5c852fb43c.jpeg

 

(Obviously my interest in passenger operations doesn’t help here - those are 85’ cars).

 

This will be a product of my overactive imagination, but the scene I began to imagine in my mind was that of the heritage train that runs through Augusta, GA for the US Masters each year (maybe that’s just me though)!

 

Anyway, after playing around a bit the reason this post appears here is that I think I concluded that the boards are most likely to be used for another NG project after all.  There are options in SG (an Inglenook switching plank would be an  obvious one, for example), but far more options in NG.

 

What’s the purpose of the post?  Musing while paint dries would be title, I guess:

 

992C6543-28C2-494D-B488-372121F08765.jpeg.969541d959286e7bddbf1edaef89bef4.jpeg

 

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Of course, something else to do while paint dries is to run trains:

 

7C4B95CB-A010-4670-8101-817A75A67648.jpeg.063c9c7e5d4cde625fa366b582d1cd16.jpeg

 

(I don’t ‘notice’ the absence of a backscene while running trains, but it does rather show on the photos).

 

I also took the opportunity to do some simple measuring of train lengths in case I actually try and plan a layout for the new boards.  For anyone wondering about NG and reading some threads here (which I know I did), these may be of interest:


Five wagons seems a decent length for a short mixed goods (disclaimer: it’s also all I’ve got at the moment), 51cm / 20” :

 

7798763C-B451-46B0-A142-8348E349FFF5.jpeg.3606493c5a124ec0ab34be363e0c9c00.jpeg

 

Short passenger (with locomotive) about 39cm incl. standard H0e couplers (just over 15”):

 

1C2C3527-45E6-4788-BB35-3FBC95D284AC.jpeg.81f6599d389aaf306f7f4486f435fca2.jpeg


Note though that Zillertalbahn passenger trains can extend to a dozen carriages behind a U-Class, so this is atypical.


I don’t have all the bits I need for a contemporary passenger train, but it will be the longest I might run:

 

D58BC93C-23F0-4E87-A548-5FB6ED8ABB51.jpeg.633f96c17ba488aa2b863ce0ba58268d.jpeg

 

And, for completeness, a Peco Setrack 228cm / 9” point, but note that small 009 4-wheel locomotives often stall on Insulfrog points, and larger locomotives won’t run on Setrack curves, so use with care.  Hope this helps, Keith.

 

B1E51315-0FD0-426A-8C62-33975DE88EC8.jpeg.92df67c0ef309c9db8f2e55ddaf5378e.jpeg

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Hi @Northroader - I think there may perhaps be a bit of a typo in your post above?
 

You are quite right of course - the boards are each micro-layout sized (approximately), so there are plenty of possibilities.  What I should have said was that ‘there are far more options for what I’d like to do now in NG.’

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I'm continuing to think about ideas for my new baseboards.

 

Completion of my Test Circuit took me back to my first days as a railway modeller.  I wanted to model in N Gauge, and when I was 9 or 10 my birthday present was a baseboard my Dad had made with a simple circuit of Peco Setrack and one siding  - same as I've just made now (there was also a controller and a train).  I can still remember the board was 2'2" x 3'8".

 

It was never ballasted or sceniced, but instead developed into a busy layout.  No photos exist, but this was the track plan:

 

5283E1CD-9A24-4F33-9482-7CCB7DC3F7F1.jpeg.528403e7787394b1a9cbf57b38c3b57c.jpeg

 

It wouldn't translate into H0e, as the track spacing would be too tight, and I think I've learned the 'less is more' lesson now (one of several reasons this layout never got sceniced).

 

 

But it still took me until yesterday to realise that putting my two new baseboards side by side (instead of end to end) to give me a layout 26" x 44" is in fact the same now as then.

 

Back to square one, a second chance or just a coincidence?  Who knows.  I'm hoping to get to the Merseyside and South West Lancs gathering tomorrow, which will no doubt give me loads of new ideas - so no point trying to decide anything until then. 

 

Have a good weekend, Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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One thing that often catches me out when seeing layouts at shows / exhibitions is their size when in a large hall compared to when at home.  So I thought I’d use a bit of unexpected free time before tea to do some ‘visualisation tests’ and see what will actually fit on the new boards.

 

First test was for weight: weighing the baseboard tops and wood for frames separately, it looks like each board will weigh about 3.25kg.  It would make layout design a lot easier if they were joined into one, but carrying them up the dog leg staircase to the attic room confirms that might be unwise: there’s a very low ceiling on the way up, so a bigger and heavier ‘square’ would be quite a bit more difficult to manoeuvre.  So I’m thinking they will have to remain as separate boards.

 

I used Setrack for simplicity and speed, so my lines were a bit angular (this would be fixed with flex track).

 

Things I didn’t like:

  • A very short run on each side - my larger project layout at 1.9m long avoids this, but my guesstimate earlier in the thread that it’ll be a three to five year project now seems quite realistic given the latest moves around the house.
  • Using straight track needed across the baseboard joins, rather than a gentle curve.  I think I’ll have to live with this.
  • The short run-round, limited by baseboard size.
  • Even if I maximise it with points coming off curved ends so it has a long-enough loop for a short run-round, it is still not long enough for trains to pass.

 

Things I found encouraging:

  • A diagonal run-round can fit - as long as locomotives and trains are short, it fits in easily.
  • I got it all out, set it up, took the photos and put it away again (incl. boards back in the outhouse) in under an hour.  Given the primary requirement of portability, that is the benefit achieved by living with the smaller baseboard for now.
  • I can push the end tracks a bit near the edges than I did in this test to give a bit more of a run along the sides.

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
(Edit for text only - photos no longer exist)
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I don’t think there’s any doubt that running passenger trains is my favourite part of railway modelling.  Steam hauled tourist trains on the ZB can be twelve or more coaches long, with a mixture of 4-wheel, bogie and open coaches (for sunny days).

 

Watching the train go by:


The compact size of H0e means I’m able to run a six coach train even on my test circuit:

 

15B66D11-C530-4E52-96C0-782403530EC6.jpeg.355cced1c2d9fe31d4586e2184faa6c7.jpeg

 

799FB102-5896-4FC7-95B6-5D959845EE1B.jpeg.2147fc9b2721f19d39a021bbb98ea024.jpeg

 

All the coaches are Austrian, but only the red 4-wheelers are liveried for the ZB.  Photos on the test circuit aren’t that easy, but hopefully convey the effect of watching a train gently make its way along the line - my definition of fun.

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Thank you for the positive reactions to my post last night.  I wanted to reshoot the photos in better light, so have posed a couple more today just for my own benefit really.  Thinking about it, the absence of any distinctive scenic features on the test track probably helps maintain the illusion of travelling distance (not merely going round and round in circles), even if it’s not so easy to capture it on film:

 

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B624A9AF-0F68-43C1-AE3F-728534E54C76.jpeg.7e841b923838ab9d2d308a1ca7f8267a.jpeg

 

Can I maintain this illusion while adding more operation on the boards I’m building?  That’s still the next challenge.  Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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On 12/09/2021 at 14:21, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Can I maintain this illusion while adding more operation on the boards I’m building?  That’s still the next challenge.

Hello Keith, Having been absent from the forum for much of the summer I have only just caught up with your progress and it is interesting what you say in your last post. What has impressed me with your work is the methodical and planned manner in which you work and the quality of what you produce. Given that I have no doubt that you will conquer that next challenge and I look forward to seeing you do it too! Woody PS That n gauge layout from your younger years looks impressive.

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3 minutes ago, Woody C said:

Hello Keith, Having been absent from the forum for much of the summer I have only just caught up with your progress and it is interesting what you say in your last post. What has impressed me with your work is the methodical and planned manner in which you work and the quality of what you produce. Given that I have no doubt that you will conquer that next challenge and I look forward to seeing you do it too! Woody PS That n gauge layout from your younger years looks impressive.


Thanks Woody - I’m enjoying reading about your extension too: really good use of the space you have, Keith.

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After playing around with ideas for a few days it became clear that something was going to have to give for me to get the kind of effect I was after.  Some helpful advice elsewhere was to opt for an end to end layout after all, as I do already have the test circuit for continuous running (I’d been thinking of this layout as a replacement, not an extra).
 

So I’ve spent a bit of money on a couple of rather nice 9mm ply 2’ x 4’ boards from Wickes to use instead of the 9mm MDF.  These are a bit bigger, and I’ve sliced a third off each of them to create an extra board, which I can put at right angles as a Fiddle Yard to make an L-shaped terminus layout without needing more length (which isn’t available).

 

A free evening has given me the chance to try out some ideas, which needless to say have resulted in something a bit different to the concept I began with.  It’s not Austrian, but tries to avoid overcrowding- I think the ‘full length’ trains I want to run could look at home.

 

Board 1 (left hand - terminus):

E2559D79-222A-4207-B4EC-B7A9958CC66B.jpeg.3a02cf510cb11b9f939f976c32d07e39.jpeg

 

Board 2 (right hand):

 

5F43BB0B-2EA3-4AAE-BEFC-DF0FE4FFE225.jpeg.a41ef4f7557a35d5e083a36d2ba7e870.jpeg

 

This may not be the final design, but gives a flavour of my thinking - the two short spurs could be an Engine Shed.

 

The main difference I’m finding designing for H0e is that the scenery is still H0 sized, even though the tracks (if I’m playing around in Anyrail) look more like N-Gauge.  This is all still new to me, but shows the benefit of planning using actual rolling stock and boards.

 

Best thing to do now is to leave these ideas to gestate for a couple of days and see if I still like them, Keith.

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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The one advantage of having had to go back to the baseboard stage so often in the past year is that I have had a bit of practice - it only took a couple of hours this afternoon to cut and fit the subframes to the new* two scenic boards, leaving me time to do the garden as well:

BC8A83E9-03E2-491A-9B24-5879A052120B.jpeg.ab13618a1653d980c5cb8c3da167a31d.jpeg


The two remaining strips of plywood will be braced together to form the fiddle yard board.

 

The downside of having had to do this so often is that two drill bits broke today - they’d just worn out.

____________
 

* ‘new’ as is in newer than the last ones I called ‘new’

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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With a bit of free time I took the boards back up to the layout room to try out some more ideas.  There is a bit of ‘mission creep’ going on: two baseboards have become three (bigger ones), then I added another track across a baseboard joint to get the third parallel loop in (I want it long enough that locomotives don’t stop on points for coupling / uncoupling).  But for all the time I’ve spent on Anyrail, I still find this kind of planning more effective - and quicker.  It’s the best way to check out how it could look as I come up the stairs and into the attic room, Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
(Edit for text only - I did not keep copies of the photos I posted)
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5A208956-D383-41A3-A183-6071000B2698.jpeg.35ba23aa6d62eee3211f515080c81db0.jpeg

 

A free morning has seen the third baseboard assembled.  I’m toying with the idea of dispensing with the Fiddle Yard in favour of a second small station, which I can then operate as a simple point-to-point.  As this is a portable layout, the board sizes are determined by the available space and portability requirement (as well as available timber), so for this layout it’s been OK to press on making boards before deciding on a track plan.  As I don’t plan on using point motors, I haven’t had to worry about the position of cross-bracing.  Have a good weekend, Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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 A rainy afternoon has given me the chance to have another look at a possible layout plan:

 

As mentioned above, I wanted to try replacing the Fiddle Yard (I’m just not a fan) with a second small station:

 

A6897598-986C-4A34-9816-06F674AD6D86.jpeg.606f173756d043f32b64c5ec4abe582d.jpeg

 

I can make the passing loop long enough if I angle the tracks across the boards.  I’m not planning for it to be an HOn30 American Station - ‘Home Depot’ just happened to be to hand.

 

I do like the idea of an open run even on this small layout:

 

D20D36DE-CBAF-406D-BC33-842026937E32.jpeg.3afac5a6174215047c4b32ee5ea1c409.jpeg

 

But the design for the main station hasn’t been feeling right (to me).  The photos I posted on Tuesday (28th Sept, above) would definitely fit, but after thinking about it for a few days I realised I wasn’t convinced.  One reason was the way the engine shed / workshop encroached on the open run, but something was nagging me.  

 

So I spent some more time playing around with track and rolling stock this afternoon to try and fit a terminus onto the final baseboard, without success.  I even gave up for a bit and went for a walk in the rain, before having what I hope is a breakthrough:

 

25B45E29-D408-4BFD-868E-0939291CCD86.jpeg.38df4fc8bef0c851fee76312e03cd251.jpeg

 

EDE56320-1426-4E4F-8B0A-27ECE48F712F.jpeg.fce3a3df93392d11d10e3f7c889d33b5.jpeg

 

DCE1DAFD-6722-4827-96E8-A720DBF90CB5.jpeg.07e10c0a38f51a76dcd8284988aec7d7.jpeg

 

What’s changed?  I’ve just spread it out a little bit more, eased the reverse curve on the scenic baseboard and given the whole thing a just bit more breathing space.  This I like.

 

What I want to do now is to get back to some actual modelling - I have quite a queue of unfinished (and unstarted) models to tackle.  Progress on this layout project will hopefully continue - although it gets harder as the weather turns and the nights draw in (due to needing to major work outside), but I’m not short of things to do: 

 

009 anybody? (an unfinished Ratio GW Station untouched for over a year now - still neatly wrapped up in my stash):

 

4F79D6E1-E8D9-4A6F-8F9B-51F7DF523048.jpeg.81a19cb7d0f0cce50ba1327c9867706f.jpeg

 

Take care and stay safe, Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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I’ve had a bit of free time this afternoon to draw up my track plan:  Building positions are just indicative, and I haven’t thought about wiring: this was to check track / alignments:

 

 

(Edit 19th October 2021 - updated drawing following feedback re: Engine Shed placement):

 

BA5ADF22-8818-4BDF-B6A6-8191FBC475FB.jpeg.a0e676c7f95ba0b68aea7ca5aab5ca8b.jpeg


Realistically, I don’t expect to be track laying before the spring now.  I’ll ‘finish’ the boards as I have done before: paint and cork sheet, so this will be all for a bit on this layout project.  I’m sure I’ll find something else to do soon enough though, Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
(Revised Drawing)
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Some interesting ideas Keith. As I think is the case with any layout project we always find that it would be nice if we just had a little more space! I do like the two station approach - there is a clear purpose to running trains and to some degree you can in your mind treat each station as a scenic fiddle yard to the other station if need be. The only piece of advice I can offer for what it is worth is have some point available (no pun intended) to allow for expansion - you never know what the future may hold!

 

As I always say getting the baseboards built is always the hardest part so the rest is relatively easy now!!! Look forward to see how this comes on even if have to wait until the Spring.

 

Woody.

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On 04/10/2021 at 07:23, Woody C said:

Some interesting ideas Keith. As I think is the case with any layout project we always find that it would be nice if we just had a little more space! I do like the two station approach - there is a clear purpose to running trains and to some degree you can in your mind treat each station as a scenic fiddle yard to the other station if need be. The only piece of advice I can offer for what it is worth is have some point available (no pun intended) to allow for expansion - you never know what the future may hold!

 

As I always say getting the baseboards built is always the hardest part so the rest is relatively easy now!!! Look forward to see how this comes on even if have to wait until the Spring.

 

Woody.


Thanks Woody.  Including a possible expansion track is something I missed with my Test Circuit, so it’s good advice.

 

In my case, after so many false starts, the thing I think I’ll find hardest is seeing a project through (I’ve built plenty of baseboards that have got no further!).  I’ve ‘road tested’ this idea against some other possible options over the past week,  and am happy to say I haven’t come up with anything more appealing.  For me, that’s a very important test!
 

With another rainy afternoon, I’ve therefore taken a few more preliminary photos, which I hope will help keep me motivated to press on when I read back through the thread later - these are therefore just for future reference, but don’t aim to show anything new - well, in my case what’s ‘new’ is nothing has changed:

 

Secondary Station without US Depot and with Short Spur points measured for position per plan:

 

E453EEBD-9875-4D97-AB75-374AB7AB5CAF.jpeg.405a912f3e67548daa737ac615f0baaa.jpeg

 

ED337AC8-3664-4063-8449-77164BCD32C3.jpeg.b7ba80e50dec68ae08253ea9209e4c19.jpeg

 

Open Run with end of Main Station Loop now in position, per plan:

 

D35023F9-75C3-441D-A7AB-8CA89E88657B.jpeg.4415770806e61d5695ebd7e9be629e4d.jpeg

 

Main Station with all points measured for position per plan:

 

02537831-8DBC-47F0-BAD3-3B578820DF61.jpeg.2e7f15ab8cabddb9c6f9fa1e8144dbbb.jpeg

 

EEF6C87E-68B5-4AE4-B319-D7B2F84780E8.jpeg.e9ae52526531b2d45bbe0612e09eb862.jpeg

 

My apologies for the poor quality of the photos (these are the best of the bunch).  The combination of the position of the window, trying to take overall photos instead of close ups, and navigating everything else in the room doesn’t help, Keith.

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Looking good Keith. I do admire your baseboards. The quality of your carpentry is far beyond my wood butchery skills! Also good to know you are at a point where you have proved your track plan to your own satisfaction. I think though that we have to remember that even the real railways did not always got it right with regard to track layout -- there is a prototype for everything out there and in most cases they lived with it and developed operational techniques to get round the problems which can give an interesting layout in model form. As always looking forward to seeing your layout develop. 

 

Woody

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Thank you for the kind responses to my post yesterday.  I imagine there are a lot of people interested in model railways like me who,  for various reasons, would like to have a layout but struggle to get one built.  After all, even though I can account for the delays of the past eighteen months, it is now forty years since my N Gauge table top layout was dismantled (see post on 10th Sept) - so what explains the other thirty-eight and a half?  In my case, for all the ideas I may have, I think it boils down to simply not being a very practical person.  But it means I now run the risk of looking at any plan I might come up with, deciding “it’s not perfect,” and going back to the drawing board instead of pressing on with what I can build.

 

As far as I know, the only real solution to this is to make a start and keep going.  It’s been sunny here today, but with the grass too damp to cut until the afternoon sun had reached the garden, I’ve had the chance to take the boards outside and fit the DCC Concepts Alignment Dowels:

 

97D212A7-D4F2-46B9-B946-826BD631C8D9.jpeg.e8da64cab9a345f86acb37116c9aed87.jpeg

 

0B34D76F-F8AF-4072-AE93-43B8A3B61693.jpeg.5981fc2947e1c3aeb89db19641b0d159.jpeg

 

(The top board is the side board for the secondary station - the dowels are spaced differently, to avoid the screws holding that baseboard to its frame.  I did have some problems aligning the boards to fit the dowels, but this is not down to the product: it would have been easier to fit them to the frames before putting on the baseboard tops, as my drill is wider than the frame).

 

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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On 10/10/2021 at 17:53, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 I did have some problems aligning the boards to fit the dowels, but this is not down to the product: it would have been easier to fit them to the frames before putting on the baseboard tops, as my drill is wider than the frame). 

Who hasn't, at some stage, realised that they should have done one thing before another and not the order in which they had actually done it - by which time it's too late!  I suspect we've all done it, at least once?

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One for “the stash”: 

 

the Merseyside and Southwest Lancashire Group of the 009 Society commissioned a couple of very good loco kits earlier this year, with sales of their Upnor Castle a fund raiser in memory of Roger Christian, a highly regarded member of the group and very fine modeller who passed away not long ago.  I’d already bought one of the Bagnall Saddle Tank models (Aug 28th post), as the simpler body lines ought to be easier for me to paint as a novice in this field.  I think they’ve sold about 140 copies of Upnor, and with stocks now running low, I’ve had the chance to buy one of the final few:

 

E261048F-66C8-42B0-A514-3BD175661127.jpeg.54fa515e11891b7f8f2a45ee4ce34682.jpeg

 

How does it fit into my plans?  To my mind, it will easily pass as a small American Diesel, and while it’s to 4mm scale rather than 3.5mm that’ll hopefully go unnoticed in a smaller model used in a context where loading gauges are larger.

 

What is particularly brilliant about the way this model has been designed for the Kato chassis is that it doesn’t need skirts to hide the position of the wheels - there’s sufficient detail below the running plate to hide the chassis at normal viewing distance.  And at a quarter of the price of a new r-t-r 009 loco (incl, a brand new Kato 110 chassis) it’s quite a bargain too.

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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