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Narrow Gauge Beginnings - getting started in HOn30 and H0e


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23 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

You can cut a larger hole in the existing floor and a smaller hole in the extra layer underneath so the clips have room to swing in the resulting recess.


Thank you - that would be a stronger, neater and simpler solution than the one I thought of :).  

 

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A quick test of this morning’s progress before lunch: first the good news - the 40’ car doesn’t look too bad (to me) on a 9” curve:


FD040540-2D42-41AF-B85D-0F8B093C3CA4.jpeg.62f530378aaec3acee134b07f93cdc62.jpeg

 

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The unfinished model weighs 16gms, which is too light.  I’ve noticed the 009 couplings are slightly higher than the H0e ones on my ZB coaches - I don’t know if this is an issue between the scales:

 

D96FB315-36BA-435E-892A-1213AD8B98DE.jpeg.0e7dee25ef31cf18178d2d82de7ca3af.jpeg

 

The bogies do now run freely, but are very “wobbly” as a result of the way I’ve fixed them (I’ve decided my plasticard is .040 thou).  My thanks to @BernardTPM for his much better solution, which I just didn’t see in time (the voice of experience).

 

There’s still some work to do - I guess I’d expected the Peco bogies to just “plug and play” - in some senses they do, of course, but I’ve got some fitting to do still.

 

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If your coach is wobbling you may be able to reduce this by stabilsing one bogie, restricting it's ability to rock side to side, but not to swivel. You should still leave one bogie able to rock to allow for changes in level.

Sorry I can't advise how this could be done on those particular bogies as I don't have any Peco bogies myself to test. I did work out what they'd done in design terms with the first pair, they did, the L&BR coach bogies, using the pivot attached to a plate to retain the wheels.

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3 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I’ve noticed the 009 couplings are slightly higher than the H0e ones on my ZB coaches - I don’t know if this is an issue between the scales

 

I think it’s more of an issue between different manufacturers. If you use the small Roco and Minitrains 4-wheel wagons then the coupling height of these is good to adopt as a standard as it can’t really be changed on these wagons themselves. I think it’s all looking good so far though, particularly the bogie vehicle you’ve built.

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On 22/05/2021 at 17:01, BernardTPM said:

If your coach is wobbling you may be able to reduce this by stabilsing one bogie, restricting it's ability to rock side to side, but not to swivel. You should still leave one bogie able to rock to allow for changes in level.

Sorry I can't advise how this could be done on those particular bogies as I don't have any Peco bogies myself to test. I did work out what they'd done in design terms with the first pair, they did, the L&BR coach bogies, using the pivot attached to a plate to retain the wheels.


Thank you.  I’ve had a further play in between jobs this afternoon, and I think the wobble is mainly caused by using a single sheet of 1mm (.040 thou) plasticard for a clip 1.5mm deep - so fully one-third is free to wobble.  If I had some .020 thou plasticard as well I could add another half thickness layer to the fixing plate.  I’ve also added more weight, making the base double thickness when remodelling it as suggested with a solid fixing plate and a wider hole (4.5mm) as a recess above:

 

5429EFA5-595C-4E8D-81C3-56B9E39142E5.jpeg.291491245d80635e9faea47f1fb3a458.jpeg

 

 

I’ve also added the roof (not yet glued down).  I made the clerestory taller (3mm top lights in a 6mm clerestory).  This is twice as big as in my first, plain card version.  It was much easier to cut, but I think the original proportions were better:

 

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It does run better now.  I’m not planning to detail the interior for this particular practice model, so have just added a couple of card partitions, trying out different combinations (I have an endless supply of cereal box card, but I’m finding the thicker packing card is a better material for inner layers).  
 

 

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That’ll be all for today.  I need to make new sub-frames / trusses and finish the painting.  For a total cost of a pair of bogies, and some valuable lessons learned, it’s a useful learning experience.  I’m not sure I’d want to tackle anything much more complicated yet (certainly not a Loco body), but all I’ve had to buy so far are the bogies.  Take care and stay safe, Keith.

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Hello Keith, Having been absence from the forum for a while I have only just caught up with your latest work. I am impressed with your scratch build, the materials and techniques you are using and your ability to narrate and illustrate not only the success but also the inevitable downs when trying new techniques. I think everyone who has read through your posts has learnt something valuable. Thank you for taking the time to post your progress.

Woody

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Just been catching up with some of the other active threads in this Forum - some incredibly high standard modelling: well done all!  It really does provide encouragement.

 

With the weather finally picking up, I’ll be hoping to do some baseboard painting as the next stage of my project, so I’d like to get my Combine finished.  Switching from card to plasticard for the base solved the problem of fitting bogies, but it’s not as easy to make it look like wood.  Plasticard also offers more resistance when cutting (partly as I just have one sheet of .040 thou to use).   I did a test to make some plasticard balcony ends:

 

The first photo shows both the start and finish (I prepared a spare set just in case).  I scribed four pieces, which I gave two coats of paint and some simple dry brush weathering (not as good as I’d hoped it would be - more practice needed).

 

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I then cut out the four pieces and separated the individual planks from two of them, which I stuck in random order to the backs of the other two.  The individual planks will be on the outside.  I actually didn’t lose any!
 

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I’ve been doing little bits and pieces in odd moments during the week, but have decided to take the plunge and finish the build in all plasticard - this is no longer a practice piece, but one I hope to use.  First up were the trusses:

 

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Then a full set of components for what is essentially a rebuild - reverting to a 4mm clerestory.  To be fair, that part was easier with plasticard.  Painting with primer has begun.  Where I’ve cut out the doors, they will be stuck back into the parts they came out of - but as separate parts, not just scored (why not):

 

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Assembly will be as per the practice versions.  Improving my weathering so it looks like old wood is the next challenge.  Enjoy the Bank Holiday weekend, Keith.

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Trickiest bit of the assembly was the first - fitting the window frames and doors into the inner sides and ends:

 

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My cutting wasn’t as accurate as I’d hoped - it was easier in the Mk. 2 card model as I used thinner card for the window frames.  With other builds starting to queue up, I decided to press on rather than spend more time redoing it all again.

 

I realised the problem with the paint was using gloss paint - it had worked on card as it soaked in (so wasn’t as shiny).  Switching to some Matt I had in stock has been an improvement: I’ll say the khaki I have is my tribute to Pullman Green.

 

I still need to glaze the final one and refit the wheels, but here are the three models lined up for comparison:

 

097BBD4F-8D20-4DFE-8FC8-216645850071.jpeg.450f445b266bcc7ccc4d3a0e68306887.jpeg

 

and a couple of shots of the final one as of today - this is my first model in plasticard, and the close ups show where I’ve not been very precise, although the roof is much better this time:

 

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The lesson I’ve learned here is that cut lines that look straight enough and close enough to being on measurement when I’m making individual components won’t look nearly as accurate when painted and assembled into the model if there’s any inaccuracy to begin with.


It may be obvious, but having always built kits before the start of this year, it’s not something I’ve worried about before (the more I look at these photos, the more I’m tempted to do some revision work on the window frames after all, despite what I wrote at the start of this post: I’ll think about it).

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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It’s a fine morning here and I’m not working today, so chance to make some repairs before the day begins after all:

 

I figured that improving the worst of the window frames should suffice, which meant just one piece on this side:

 

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I also decided it should be easier to make each new piece fit first, then carefully paint them to match later.  More needed doing on the other side.  The window frame I replaced is now made of four separate pieces glued in place - easier than trying to make a new one.  One of the balcony ends was wonky (I’ve taken it off in the upper photo, refixed it by the lower):

 

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I applied the same technique to the top of the door frame and took a bit off the bottom - it is actually more square than the photo implies.  I’ll see how it looks when painted, but am much more satisfied now: lesson learnt!
 

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Next job will be to watch the repaint dry :):

 

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It’s far, far, far from perfect, but I’m happy I’m back up the standard I can expect for this first attempt.  Some surplus decals are being posted to me, which will enable me to add a road name later.  
 

Apologies for the “blow-by-blow” account of a very simple repair job - I share it as I think it’s made a difference.  I’ve also learned I could use more patience in the earlier stages of a scratchbuild - as I don’t have a permanent workbench I can only do one project at a time, and am perhaps a bit too keen to be getting onto the next one.  Another lesson learned!

 

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With a bit more time after lunch, and confidence restored, I’ve been adding some details and glazing:

 

First up: Window bars for the baggage doors.  In my Mk1 test version, these were strips of card easily fixed behind the windows.  This time I decided to try proper window bars:

 

FEE0EE59-9506-477E-8EFD-C76D175D5958.jpeg.b45915484175753ce620279d17a4b8d0.jpeg

 

While the glue dried on these I hunted around for a suitable piece of plastic sprue to use as a chimney for the stove heater I imagine the car had:

 

592FBC10-7E45-4D43-B806-C3F3F8FDE1AA.jpeg.84a296e217e70563244d2179389b89c0.jpeg

 

It’s starting to take shape:

 

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Glazing and Door handles (short lengths clipped from office staples dipped in glue) come next:

 

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The staples obey rule 1 of gluing things (they’ll stick anywhere except where you want).  
 

And do I really want to spend a free Sunday afternoon wrestling to fit short lengths of thin metal that can hardly be seen onto an end door, just so I can take a photo to say I’ve done it?

 

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Apparently I do!

 

I’m just waiting for the paint to dry on the other window bars (which will be fitted on the inside like rails), then I’ll be done!

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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And...finished:

 

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The roof is not glued on, so I can access the interior.  Decals will be applied when they arrive - but what started out as a bit of fun with some spare cardboard for a rainy Bank Holiday weekend at the start of the month has progressed quite a way!

 

Inevitably, the close up photos show things I can’t see from just a few feet away as I write this up.  I’ve not been updating my parallel layout thread in the NGRM Forum over the weekend, but will catch up there soon (I know some read both).   I also have a number of ideas for what to do next, but that’s all for now.  Take care and stay safe, Keith.

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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I thought it would be a good idea to try something simple with coffee stirrers before digging too deep into the bundle of 1000 I have for making some buildings.  With a bit of plasticard left over and some time this week, I decided to start with a simple freelance freight car.  I tried to take more care cutting the ‘components’ to begin with:


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And ended up with this:

 

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A load is needed to hide the holes where the trucks peep through, and there are no brakes (of any kind).  I had some help with glue / gluing techniques from the NGRM Online Forum, but the main thing I learned about the coffee stirrers was that the score lines I scribed to make the sides look 4 planks high got too easily covered when painting.  Trucks are Peco GR-106.

 

(Note: the first photo also appears in my discussion thread on HOn30 modelling).

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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9 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 but the main thing I learned about the coffee stirrers was that the score lines I scribed to make the sides look 4 planks high got too easily covered when painting.

Modelling in wood was a new concept for me. A bit of trepidation at first, but now I love it.

When scribing wood, you really need a good quality scriber with a hardened tip. The next trick is getting to scribe the lines straight and not follow the grain. In the end I make a little jig up each time to clamp the wood, pin in the ar$e, but worth it. I also use on oil based wood stain before I paint and heavily dry brush the paint on. If you omit the stain, I would use a couple of coats of well diluted paint. his should let a little build up in the grooves. If you get into wood in a big way, a pounce wheel is a good investment for putting in nail holes.

 

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I don't plan on posting videos on a regular basis, but with today being a day for test running, it was the best way to record things.  I set up a simple Setrack test track which deliberately included S-curves through crossovers (which I avoided in my layout plan).  The first thing I wanted to test was the slow running possible with a Gaugemaster Combi controller I've bought to replace my 1970s H&M Powermaster.  The second thing was to see how well my scratchbuilt rolling stock would run.

 

So, if you want to spend a couple of minutes:

 

 

Needless to say, I'm more than happy with the results of the test (the controller can run even slower than shown in the video).

 

The 'bump' in the track on the right hand end is from a badly laid track joint (You can actually see where I missed the fishplate!).  The roof on the Combine is not stuck on yet, so doesn't quite fit right.  Apart from that, it's all good. 

 

I've also bought a second locomotive - a Bemo electric:

 

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It should be an H0m model as it's of a Swiss metre-gauge prototype (Bemo have offered it in both), but it was the locomotive I liked and it runs well.  It doesn't change my layout plans, but means I can concentrate on other things now over the summer, as I won't be looking at locomotives again for a good while.

 

Have a good weekend, Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Having satisfied myself I can work with coffee stirrers, I’ve made a start on my first wooden building.  I’m beginning with the same the cereal-packet card approach I found worked OK with “Home Depot” that I scratchbuilt for the Spring 2021 RMweb cakebox competition, and pictures of my design and first test pieces were posted in that thread (June 5th posts onwards, page 3 of: Home Depot - a Lockdown Cakebox).

 

I’m building another Depot, this time based on a US Narrow Gauge prototype that’s a bit different and caught my eye.  I’ve started with the end pieces (note: they are supposed to be different heights):

 

BD5A61CC-CB61-4695-A607-A0EA28942C46.jpeg.f413ed6e1cbdab7de6fe4dfdfb94cde4.jpeg

 

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Although coffee stirrers are perfect for On30 (and equivalent) modelling, I found them to be too wide for H0n30, so each one has to be split in two first (weirdly, the oversize ones seem to be OK for inside the building though!).

 

 

I also found that the card template behind them warped after they were glued on, hence the stiffeners and L-beams for the corners.  The window frames are just a lattice of painted cereal packet card strips glued in place, with glazing from an offcut of office laminating sheet.  I can see why commercial windows are popular amongst scratch builders - they are a bit fiddly and I’ve only done three so far!

 

I think this build will take a while - but I can make it in stages, and for the cost of a packet of coffee stirrers (less than £5 for 1000) and a bit more time I’m hoping to produce a model of a station I saw as a laser cut kit on sale for about £100.  Keith.

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Not yet having the layout up and running, I guess I’m quite easily distracted - so I took some time out for a bit of fun:

 

Most of the examples of coffee stirrer technology I’ve seen have been in O Scale / On30 Narrow Gauge, so I thought it’d be interesting to do a simple build in the larger scale, just for a break from splitting coffee stirrers into two.  Using American O-Scale (1/4” or 1:48), 9mm track would give me a gauge of 17.0” - taking me into the realms of Minimum Gauge / Miniature Railways.  But what if it had been used for some long-forgotten narrow gauge backwoods railroad?
 

Passenger cars on the Maine 2’ varied in width between around 6’ and 6’6”, so I first made some templates 6’3” wide to check for clearance on my tight curves and using standard Peco GR-106 bogies (trucks).  I went for a ‘shortie’ 20’ car length, being half the scale length of the maximum I’ve allowed myself for HOn30 (so about the same length).  Five79 have also announced some 20’ cars, though I’ve not seen any pictures (if not new, they may be former Chivers kits?).  I drew out some templates in card, for a combination Passenger Combine and Caboose with a cupola rather than a clerestory:

 

As usual, I’ve either underestimated how long it will take, or overestimated how much free time I have, so I only finished the wood pieces for one door and side!

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
(Edit for text only as photos no longer exist)
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A bit more time at the end of yesterday saw me get a bit further.  I did like the look and feel of the model - and the attraction of a larger scale is immediately obvious.  I was still cutting quite a lot of coffee stirrers to fit, though it would be easier on a building.  I certainly found I liked working with the wood more.  Realistically, I can’t see me moving up to 1/4” wholescale, so the question this exercise asks me is to see if I can achieve the same easy results in HOn30, both for buildings and rolling stock?  Can I make things I find as attractive?

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
(Edited for text only as photos no longer exist)
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Just a little bit of free time at the end of this afternoon: I repeated the exercise in HOn30 so I could do a comparison between the 1/4” scale car side and a quick HOn30 version.  After yesterday’s experiment, the HOn30 did feel a bit small again!
 

As with the Depot I’m building, each coffee stirrer was split in two (or three) width wise before gluing in place.  The door was actually a separate sub-assembly.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
(Edited for text only as photo no longer exists)
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Quote

I’ve noticed the 009 couplings are slightly higher than the H0e ones on my ZB coaches - I don’t know if this is an issue between the scales

009 / H0e couplings are garbage at the best of times. 

At least the differing heights make coupling a lot easier. 

When the couplings are exactly the same height there is no way they will couple up. 

When they do eventually couple, only one loop does the job whilst the other can't lay flat. 

Roco's plug links are the best although only good for permanent rakes.

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1 hour ago, SGP said:

009 / H0e couplings are garbage at the best of times. 

At least the differing heights make coupling a lot easier. 

When the couplings are exactly the same height there is no way they will couple up. 

When they do eventually couple, only one loop does the job whilst the other can't lay flat. 

Roco's plug links are the best although only good for permanent rakes.


Thanks for this.  So far I’m finding I’m having fewer problems with the H0e couplers than I have done in the past with couplers in the other scales I’ve used.  The Peco GR-106 bogie / coupling comes as a simple kit, so they can be assembled with or without the loops - you can therefore have a rake with loops just on one end.  Conversely, some H0e locos come with just the hooks, including the Bemo electric I have (June 4th post above) and - I think - the Minitrains range.  I’m not sure I’ve ever come across a coupling solution (in any scale) that has met with universal approval: it does seem to be a bugbear in our railway modelling world.

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37 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Conversely, some H0e locos come with just the hooks, including the Bemo electric in I have (June 4th post above) and - I think - the Minitrains range.

 

Generally locos only have the hooks - I’m not sure why this is but possibly it’s to make uncoupling a loco from a rake easier (only one loop to lift).

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