How were horses loaded?

[doilum]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

These are issues which it would be straightforward to address with microchipping.

If only it was that simple. Don't ask, horse owners will understand!!!

[Bedders]

On 12/04/2021 at 15:58, Compound2632 said:

While on the hunting theme, several railways had hounds van for conveying the pack fro kennels to meet. The Midland built three in 1894, replacing three old ones [Midland Railway Study Centre Item 64204] with a 5'6" doorway with drop flap to make a ramp and a kennelmen's compartment. Here's an example of a Great Western one, converted from a centre-luggage third, diagram S5 (Penrhos lists just this one conversion). One compartment has been retained for the kennelmen. This photo* shows that hounds were easy to unload; I suspect it may have been harder to get them all in though I suppose intelligent dogs would put two and two together and realise that some doggish fun was in the offing.

 

*The horsebox next along the dock seems to be of antique design with a platform (perhaps formerly a luggage boot) at the nearer end. 

 

Back to Rowsley, a station with more than the average number of dukes among its regular users: on 4 March 1886, the Duke of Rutland sent 43 dogs to Nottingham, at a cost of 1/- per dog. Per the 1903 timetable book "Dogs conveyed in horseboxes or other special vehicles are charged at the dog rate, minimum charge as for one horse". Dog rates are given; 1/- being the rate for a journey of 30 to 40 miles. But I wonder how many dogs could be got into one horse box or hound van?

 

Considering the penchant for fox hunts to meet at railway stations and the wealth of at least some of the riders, there seems to be few photographs of this happening. After all, these were not small affairs, 200 riders and an invited pack of hounds at Brocklesby in 1896. 

[ITG]

Well, I have to say, that had I known when I asked the original question the degree of knowledge and input that I’d get on horses, I’d have made sure I asked just before the Grand National, not just after it!  Who knows? Someone may have tipped 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

thanks a lot for your interest. I now know more, for sure!

[phil_sutters]

On 12/04/2021 at 15:58, Compound2632 said:

While on the hunting theme, several railways had hounds van for conveying the pack fro kennels to meet. The Midland built three in 1894, replacing three old ones [Midland Railway Study Centre Item 64204] with a 5'6" doorway with drop flap to make a ramp and a kennelmen's compartment. Here's an example of a Great Western one, converted from a centre-luggage third, diagram S5 (Penrhos lists just this one conversion). One compartment has been retained for the kennelmen. This photo* shows that hounds were easy to unload; I suspect it may have been harder to get them all in though I suppose intelligent dogs would put two and two together and realise that some doggish fun was in the offing.

 

*The horsebox next along the dock seems to be of antique design with a platform (perhaps formerly a luggage boot) at the nearer end. 

 

Back to Rowsley, a station with more than the average number of dukes among its regular users: on 4 March 1886, the Duke of Rutland sent 43 dogs to Nottingham, at a cost of 1/- per dog. Per the 1903 timetable book "Dogs conveyed in horseboxes or other special vehicles are charged at the dog rate, minimum charge as for one horse". Dog rates are given; 1/- being the rate for a journey of 30 to 40 miles. But I wonder how many dogs could be got into one horse box or hound van?

As usual looking for something else, I came across this page from an edition of the Wonder Book of Railways from about 1915. The hounds' van has Culmstock painted on it.

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by phil_sutters

[Mikkel]

Brilliant Phil, for reasons that cannot be disclosed this is very useful. Thanks!

[Nick Holliday]

14 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

As usual looking for something else, I came across this page from an edition of the Wonder Book of Railways from about 1915. The hounds' van has Culmstock painted on it.

 

Veering slightly off-topic, the dogs aren't Otterhounds, although they may be Fox Hounds going to hunt otters.  The true Otterhound is a lovely hairy beast, and has a different livery. 

[Compound2632]

13 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Fox Hounds going to hunt otters.  

 

So should we be blaming the near-extinction of otters on over-hunting using fox hound packs, rather than hunting per se?

 

I am reminded of a newspaper report on an increase in the number of otters being killed on the roads of Gloucestershire. This was being taken as evidence that the otter population was increasing. The headline was:

 

OTTERS ALIVE AND WELL IN GLOS.

[phil_sutters]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 The headline was:

 

OTTERS ALIVE AND WELL IN GLOS.

 

prior to becoming road-kill on the roads of said county.

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

prior to becoming road-kill on the roads of said county.

 

Exactly. That was the point...

[Nearholmer]

TEMPORARILY

 

Mind you, looked at in the long run, being alive and well is always a temporary condition.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Nick Holliday]

There's a film of a 1921 otter hunt on YouTube - the idea is rather gristly by today's standards, but obviously popular at the time. Look like foxhounds to me.

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, Nick Holliday said:

There's a film of a 1921 otter hunt on YouTube - the idea is rather gristly by today's standards, but obviously popular at the time. Look like foxhounds to me.

 

 

Poor internet on this ship (DFDS from Dieppe) so I can't watch that to see the dogs. But there is/was a specific breed for otter hunting.

[phil_sutters]

12 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

....there is/was a specific breed for otter hunting.

As illustrated a few posts above.

 

 

'this ship' or maybe its sister heading the other way almost 11 years ago.

Edited April 21, 2021 by phil_sutters

[Joseph_Pestell]

12 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

So should we be blaming the near-extinction of otters on over-hunting using fox hound packs, rather than hunting per se?

 

I am reminded of a newspaper report on an increase in the number of otters being killed on the roads of Gloucestershire. This was being taken as evidence that the otter population was increasing. The headline was:

 

OTTERS ALIVE AND WELL IN GLOS.

 

Same is definitely true for hedgehogs in Dorset.

[Joseph_Pestell]

2 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

There's a film of a 1921 otter hunt on YouTube - the idea is rather gristly by today's standards, but obviously popular at the time. Look like foxhounds to me.

 

I think that you meant to write "grisly" - not that I imagine they were particularly good to eat. Might well be gristly.

 

I would assume that they were hunted by fishery owners to preserve salmon and trout stocks.

 

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I would assume that they were hunted by fishery owners to preserve salmon and trout stocks.

 

I suppose that would be the excuse - unlike foxes, which were deliberately conserved.

[The Johnster]

On 14/04/2021 at 17:57, Michael Hodgson said:

The waste product is very good for your roses -

 There was still some to be had lying in the road during my childhood, and if we were out in the car anywhere and came across it, Mother, who was a pretty good gardener and known locally for her rhubarb, would insist on stopping to collect it, preferably fresh and steaming.  Old newspapers were kept in the boot for this purpose, and the back seat, my domain, could be a bit fragrant on hot days...

[Nearholmer]

There's loads of it round here - i'm forever dodging it when out cycling!

[Metropolitan H]

On 14/04/2021 at 17:57, Michael Hodgson said:

The waste product is very good for your roses - or your rhubarb.  .............................

That reminds me of staying with paternal grandparents in the exGNR Barracks at New England, Peterborough during the mid 1950s. Every house had a shovel and bucket handy in the yard - and there was "fierce" competition for the horse droppings, left by the Milk-man's or Coalman's horses, nearly all the men had allotments and valued the soil improving properties!

 

Rehards

Chris H

[Compound2632]

Is it time to change the topic title to "How were horses unloaded"?

[Michael Hodgson]

To load a horse you tie a bag to its head and flll the bag with oats.

The horse unloads itself on to the floor.