Are searchlights extinct?

[russ p]

With the recent ressignalling of Clacton,  were these the last searchlights on the network?  I know the miniature yellow subsidiary signal that controlled entrance to the depot was certainly the last of its kind hasn't even been in the  rule book for years 

[Mark Saunders]

Russ

 

proper electromechanical searchlight signals are a dying breed but these modern LED ones are in effect a solid state version of them.

 

Mark

[russ p]

I know what you mean but the real things were quite interesting,  modern things especially those horrible flat things look like they should be on roadworks or used to celebrate Xmas with. 

Hate everything about them and are far too bright obviously a new standard drawn up by some idiots that have never been a cab in darkness 

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, russ p said:

I know what you mean but the real things were quite interesting,  modern things especially those horrible flat things look like they should be on roadworks or used to celebrate Xmas with. 

Hate everything about them and are far too bright obviously a new standard drawn up by some idiots that have never been a cab in darkness 

I am reminded of the apparently true story of the WR S&T school, where the instructor explained that the advantages of colour light signals were that they could be seen more clearly through haze. One bright spark immediately asked "What  about through Southall?"

[Mark Saunders]

Russ

 

Some of the new ones look like overgrown “Playcraft” ones!

 

Mark

[Michael Hodgson]

That's good isn't it?  You can flog your Playcraft signals at rip-off prices as accurate scale models on Ebay,

[Zomboid]

4 hours ago, russ p said:

far too bright obviously a new standard drawn up by some idiots that have never been a cab in darkness 

Based on how my phone screen works, the ultra bright light is probably more use during the day.

 

I suppose if you're faced with a choice of "too dark to be visible in the day" and "uncomfortably bright at night" then you'd go with the brighter one. I can't see a legitimate safety argument for knowingly having the signals too dim to be seen during weather/ atmospheric conditions which can be expected in the environment where they're installed.

 

Which is not to say that it's not brighter than it needs to be. They should probably be fitted with auto-dimming. Would be more energy efficient and comfortable for the end users.

[russ p]

22 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Based on how my phone screen works, the ultra bright light is probably more use during the day.

 

I suppose if you're faced with a choice of "too dark to be visible in the day" and "uncomfortably bright at night" then you'd go with the brighter one. I can't see a legitimate safety argument for knowingly having the signals too dim to be seen during weather/ atmospheric conditions which can be expected in the environment where they're installed.

 

Which is not to say that it's not brighter than it needs to be. They should probably be fitted with auto-dimming. Would be more energy efficient and comfortable for the end users.

 

Older ground position lights used to be switched from night to day manually by the signalman 

[009 micro modeller]

I didn’t know there were any left. When did the last ones go from the LNWR local lines in London (assuming there aren’t any left there)?

[iands]

20 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Based on how my phone screen works, the ultra bright light is probably more use during the day.

 

I suppose if you're faced with a choice of "too dark to be visible in the day" and "uncomfortably bright at night" then you'd go with the brighter one. I can't see a legitimate safety argument for knowingly having the signals too dim to be seen during weather/ atmospheric conditions which can be expected in the environment where they're installed.

 

Which is not to say that it's not brighter than it needs to be. They should probably be fitted with auto-dimming. Would be more energy efficient and comfortable for the end users.

Not sure auto-dimming would work on LED type signals, another thing that could go wrong but I suppose it could be made to "fail safe" and default to the bright mode if the sensor device/circuit "failed". It would need a whole new safety case and rigorous testing to be carried and I guess there isn't the money/desire/will-power to develop something at the moment.

 

That said, the 1950s resignalling at York did provide a manual "dimmer switch" for all the sub signals on the box supervisors desk, which effectively dropped the 110 volts down to 55 volts so the subs didn't dazzle the drivers at night (I got to dim them once or twice when I was an S&T trainee at York box in the mid 70s).

[russ p]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I didn’t know there were any left. When did the last ones go from the LNWR local lines in London (assuming there aren’t any left there)?

 

Don't think they have been there for a long time. I think this was a similar but simpler system to the Mirfield speed signalling system? 

[Edwin_m]

11 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Don't think they have been there for a long time. I think this was a similar but simpler system to the Mirfield speed signalling system? 

Went around 1990 I think.  

 

There were a couple of searchlights in Nottingham station, installed I presume in the re-signalling around 1969 and survived until the 2013 re-modelling.  I presume there was some sighting issue, possibly to do with the footbridge.  

[russ p]

29 minutes ago, Edwin_m said:

Went around 1990 I think.  

 

There were a couple of searchlights in Nottingham station, installed I presume in the re-signalling around 1969 and survived until the 2013 re-modelling.  I presume there was some sighting issue, possibly to do with the footbridge.  

 

I remember the Nottingham ones

I think there may have been a couple of searchlight distants on the Scarborough line but they have gone too, so I think the last may have gone sadly 

[62613]

Isn't there one preserved at Rothley?

[TheSignalEngineer]

2 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I didn’t know there were any left. When did the last ones go from the LNWR local lines in London (assuming there aren’t any left there)?

The old Euston - Watford DC Lines signalling was decommissioned at 0100 on Satuirday 10th December 1988. 

[009 micro modeller]

11 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

The old Euston - Watford DC Lines signalling was decommissioned at 0100 on Satuirday 10th December 1988. 

 

Thanks - I did think it had basically all gone in the re-signalling but wasn’t absolutely sure. Were they used on DC lines elsewhere in North London?

[andyman7]

3 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I didn’t know there were any left. When did the last ones go from the LNWR local lines in London (assuming there aren’t any left there)?

They were replaced in 1988. I got in a couple of 14-hour days conducting the rail replacement buses on the weekend the route was shut for the switchover...

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 12/04/2021 at 19:22, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Thanks - I did think it had basically all gone in the re-signalling but wasn’t absolutely sure. Were they used on DC lines elsewhere in North London?

I was in charge of the changeover at Watford Junction on the first two nights.  I spent most of the last night shift riding up and down the whole line on a train checking that the signal sighting was OK, all AWS was functioning correctly and existing signals / associated trainstops had been taken out  prior to giving the go-ahead to sign in the new system ready for the Monday morning service to start.

 

IIRC all of the NLL was semaphore until various renewals in colour light form. I was responsilbe for taking down the last semaphores at Acton Wells Junction which were I think  the last on the line in March 1990 

Edited April 13, 2021 by TheSignalEngineer
Date corrected

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 minute ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

I was in charge of the changeover at Watford Junction on the first two nights.  I spent most of the last night shift riding up and down the whole line on a train checking that the signal sighting was OK, all AWS was functioning correctly and existing signals / associated trainstops had been taken out  prior to giving the go-ahead to sign in the new system ready for the Monday morning service to start.

Sadly whilst I was back at my hotel having breakfast after the last shift I heard the news of the Clapham crash. I was told quite quickly what the cause was and spent the next three hours checking that we hadn't made the same mistake on the work I had taken charge of.

[adanapress]

I think I recall that there is one or some in routine use on the Bolton Abbey / Embsay Heritage line. 

And someone mentioned Rothley on the Great Central. Again my memory is vague but I recall that when clearing scrub on an embankment slope on a section of the GCR ( Northern)  they discovered a really remarkable hybrid survivor.

[LNERGE]

20 hours ago, russ p said:

With the recent ressignalling of Clacton,  were these the last searchlights on the network?  I know the miniature yellow subsidiary signal that controlled entrance to the depot was certainly the last of its kind hasn't even been in the  rule book for years 

You haven't seen the last of that signal.....

[russ p]

13 minutes ago, LNERGE said:

You haven't seen the last of that signal.....

 

Good man Richard 

[LNERGE]

And possible a few more.

[russ p]

7 minutes ago, LNERGE said:

And possible a few more.

 

I was hoping you may have got some of them.

Were they the last?

[Michael Hodgson]

5 hours ago, 62613 said:

Isn't there one preserved at Rothley?

There's what looks like one at Quorn - but that's a mechanical colour light (semaphore spectacle plate with a lamp behind it).