France to limit domestic flights?

[Northmoor]

38 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Well , that’s an interesting form of fanaticism right there.

 

” ban private jets “. Yep, ban everything .

 

I take it you don’t own a car, have never used anything relying on fossil fuels and have no intention of flying anywhere ever again ?

 

Private jets are an easy target, not because of the environmental drawbacks, but because  of  jealousy/ envy quite often .

 

 

 

People are often quite enthusiastic about banning things that the loss of which will only impact other people.  Similarly they are often keen on raising taxes from other people and demanding that government provides something they do want (which therefore has to be paid for out of taxation, i.e. other people).

[adb968008]

I think a ban on cheap European holidays would be good myself.

not essential, better for our own economy, less reputational damage from drunks etc, protection from returning covid.

 

Millions of people heading to the beach does much more damage for the environment than a select few who can afford private jets, who are more likely to take health matters seriously, and of course, the limited numbers are managable.

 

Keeping people at home means they are more likely to spend local on home improvements, days out etc 

 

Boris has banned us all anyway, by the looks of it, only a few more expensive locations will be on the green list, Israel, US and some milder climates less appealing to the masses. After 1mn+ miles in the air i’m looking forwards to visiting the Cumbrian mountains, Highlands, West Wales this year, doing my bit for the economy.

 

Even if we could travel, waiting hours at the airport for tests, is neither pleasant nor healthy. Speaking with various friends overseas, the experience isnt that good anyway.. Beach in Cannes.. closed, restaurants closed and curfew from 6pm.. why bother going ?, the grass is the same colour currently.

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by adb968008

[rob D2]

14 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I think a ban on cheap European holidays would be good myself.

not essential, better for our own economy, less reputational damage from drunks etc, protection from returning covid.

 

Millions of people heading to the beach does much more damage for the environment than a select few who can afford private jets, who are more likely to take health matters seriously, and of course, the limited numbers are managable.

 

Keeping people at home means they are more likely to spend local on home improvements, days out etc 

 

Boris has banned us all anyway, by the looks of it, only a few more expensive locations will be on the green list, Israel, US and some milder climates less appealing to the masses. After 1mn+ miles in the air i’m looking forwards to visiting the Cumbrian mountains, Highlands, West Wales this year, doing my bit for the economy.

 

Even if we could travel, waiting hours at the airport for tests, is neither pleasant nor healthy. Speaking with various friends overseas, the experience isnt that good anyway.. Beach in Cannes.. closed, restaurants closed and curfew from 6pm.. why bother going ?, the grass is the same colour currently.

 

 

 

Ban “ cheap European holidays “??

And the thousands of unemployed travel industry staff that would create ? And the folding of many airlines paying taxes into economy ?

 

We can’t just “ ban “ stuff without realising the long reaching consequences.

Edited April 19, 2021 by rob D2

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Ban “ cheap European holidays “??

And the thousands of unemployed travel industry staff that would create ? And the folding of many airlines paying taxes into economy ?

 

We can’t just “ ban “ stuff without realising the long reaching consequences.

Totally agree.

 

everything needs to be balanced, we cant have a capitalist world without environmental impact.

As you rightly say, everyone wants something to ban something that doesnt impact them, so for me, Spanish beaches are a nice sacrifice, Wrestling, Boxing, Motorsport of all kinds can go. If you dare suggest banning vacations in Asia, Africa, South America or banning railways, then it’ll be my turn to be up in arms.

[corneliuslundie]

It might be good for both the home tourist industry and the environment though to persuade more people to take holidays in the UK. So come to beautiful mid Wales (but quick before it rains!).

I am not particularly worried about the fates of large commercial companies such as airlines. Their investors have to take the good with the bad, or in this case vice versa. And the rich always manage to get richer, whatever disaster befalls everyone else. But I do worry both about the future of individuals who have been badly affected by the pandemic and/or Brexit.

Jonathan

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

It might be good for both the home tourist industry and the environment though to persuade more people to take holidays in the UK. So come to beautiful mid Wales (but quick before it rains!).

I am not particularly worried about the fates of large commercial companies such as airlines. Their investors have to take the good with the bad, or in this case vice versa. And the rich always manage to get richer, whatever disaster befalls everyone else. But I do worry both about the future of individuals who have been badly affected by the pandemic and/or Brexit.

Jonathan

You are not worried about the fates of large commercial companies like airlines . But you do worry about the future of individuals .....does this include the 12500 BA laid off then....?? Or not ? See how the two go together...

 

Ive noticed some places in the U.K. now taking the absolute......price wise , so although I was all in favour of staycation their greed has forced me to reconsider that stance .

[corneliuslundie]

Point taken about BA lay-offs. though they are not related to any proposed UK ban on domestic flights.

I also understand your point about price hikes of "staycation" (which I thought meant staying home, not staying in the same country) but is that not a direct corollary of the capitalist ethic - charge what the market will bear? The other side has been the many sales over the past few months by companies desperate for cash flow.

Back on topic, I used to use flights from Luton to Edinburgh occasionally for work when the check in time was 20 minutes - I lived only a few miles away. But when the extended the airport so the route from the desk to the gate quadrupled in length and also started insisting on one hour plus check in times,. it stopped being worth it. With faster trains these days flying would simply not be an option for anyone living as I did within 45 minutes of Kings Cross by train - and I suspect for many living some distance further away.

Jonathan

[adb968008]

45 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

You are not worried about the fates of large commercial companies like airlines . But you do worry about the future of individuals .....does this include the 12500 BA laid off then....?? Or not ? See how the two go together...

 

Ive noticed some places in the U.K. now taking the absolute......price wise , so although I was all in favour of staycation their greed has forced me to reconsider that stance .

Ive got admit, hotel experiences in the UK are somewhat unique..

 

Theres nothing more British than paying £200 a night for a hotel with a 1960’s carpet, fire doors with 8 layers of paint, a shabby chic bathroom with a genuine victorian bath, where the enamel has worn, lack of water pressure and hot water. Windows that don't close properly, but are balanced by the fact they don't open properly either.

 

The wall paper splits the room in half with two mismatching types, and curtains your grandma used to wear when you were a kid.

You discover a double really means two beds pushed together, one slightly higher than the other. One glass, one cup, one tea bag and one out of date plastic milk sachet for a family of four, but they get to share 1 sachet of coffee, one coke and one bottle of water.
 

Those rustic ancient oak timbers, are really just rotten and creak at night, so you hear whoever is walking down the corridor, and theres always one at 2am who gets locked out and bangs on the door for his misses to let him in, who thinks if you shout at a whisper, that its really quiet and no one else can hear.. hopefully he’s dressed, but your not going to look.

 

Then theres the buffet breakfast, which lacks anything that might have grown in the ground, except twice deep fried mushrooms. Freshly poured Orange juice, from the concentrate box and fried eggs still free floating under oil. If you look carefully, the sausages are recycled, made out of yesterdays left over breakfast, and why is there only ever 1 minging piece of bacon left when you get to it. The toaster has two settings.. untoasted or burnt, usually with a queue, but annoyingly no plates.. so by the time you've found a plate, someones nicked your toast.

 

Then to wrap it all up on checkout, finding the hidden extras passed to you by a guy looking like Jimmy Tarbuck and has his own unique flavour of humour that no one else has ever heard of... Finally dont forget your parking ticket to get out, otherwise your walking back in shame, from the barrier to reception in the rain.. of course they forgot you were ever a resident in the last five minutes, demand proof.. so back to the car to find that receipt you may just have chucked in the bin on your way out.

As you drive out you, you have that feeling of having just been mugged, with the problem of finding out what to do with a family in a seaside resort in the pouring rain... and the horror of finding everyone has the same idea when you get there.

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by adb968008

[rob D2]

That’s true. Once it passed. about £200 a night ( with no guarantee of sun , and no sitting inside eating places ) I lost interest ...

 

Still I used to stay in Malabo in Equatorial Guinea , where the hotel was called the “ die nasty” ( dynasty) so everything looks posh in comparison 

[adb968008]

17 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

That’s true. Once it passed. about £200 a night ( with no guarantee of sun , and no sitting inside eating places ) I lost interest ...

 

Still I used to stay in Malabo in Equatorial Guinea , where the hotel was called the “ die nasty” ( dynasty) so everything looks posh in comparison 

I once arrived at a hotel in Johannesburg, booked by our travel department, only to find it had closed and gone out of business when I got there.

 

Nice flight down, chatting occasionally to this young looking student and her friend in business. Never asked what they did, discussed travel mostly. As I left the plane I noticed a few odd looks, and at immigration a few people were trying sly photographs. 
 

Once I got a new hotel in Sandton sorted, it kind of figured there was something about her, so I phoned my 20 something niece, who knows all things musical and asked here if there was any concerts in Joburg.. she came back all excited with a name and a picture, which I googled... I just enjoyed a 12 hour flight sat next to Joss Stone.

I had several such flight stories like this, Monica Lewinsky was a flight where I had to resist speaking.

Edited April 19, 2021 by adb968008

[corneliuslundie]

Since I have never paid £200 a night for an hotel I have obviously missed a great experience. 

Mind you my wife and I did make the mistake once a few years ago of booking a week in Morecambe. It was closed - the town, not the hotel which was about what we expected for the price. The only places worth visiting were the former railway station, now a pub which does meals, and the Midland Hotel, just refurbished in 1930s style.

But we have over the years had great holidays in the UK: Gower, Barmouth, Grange over Sands (staying with my sister, which I know is cheating), the Isle of Bute, Whitby. Note that none are major holiday resorts of the "Blackpool" type. Perhaps that is the secret. And of course we went to all of them by train (well, there was a ferry for the last bit to Bute).

And I forgot to say that I did once fly to Mid Wales International Airport (yes, it does exist) on business, someone else paying. But the last time it had commercial flights, I have a feeling, was in the 1930s - though they may have gone from a field near Llandrindod - home of the Automobile Palace which still advertises aircraft on the facade: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53353205

Jonathan

PS: Remember that the GWR was a pioneer of internal flights.

[rob D2]

I flew Chris Eubank to NY, and bill oddie back ...

 

glamour .

 

[adb968008]

11 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Since I have never paid £200 a night for an hotel I have obviously missed a great experience. 

 

And I forgot to say that I did once fly to Mid Wales International Airport (yes, it does exist) on business, someone else paying. But the last time it had commercial flights, I have a feeling, was in the 1930s - though they may have gone from a field near Llandrindod - home of the Automobile Palace which still advertises aircraft on the facade: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53353205

Jonathan

PS: Remember that the GWR was a pioneer of internal flights.

As Andy often says, this isnt TripAdvisor, if there was a travel thread I could fill it with stories good and bad. Ive 3500 + boarding passes, saved and stored in 4 ex-

concorde galley containers. Each has a story, often mundane, but others stand out.

 

Not sure what i’ll do with them.

 

As for GWR pioneer flights, Ive an LMS summer 1939 timetable which advertises LMS air services to Scotland, IOM and Belfast.

 

 

 

[adb968008]

13 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

I flew Chris Eubank to NY, and bill oddie back ...

 

glamour .

 

I met Chris in a shopping centre in Sandton... versace suit an all, when he shook my hand he nearly lifted me off the ground. Friendly guy.

 

My brother in law flies private jets (netjets mostly), first time he flew into the UK, c2010, I met him at the private “terminal”, if you can call it that,( portacabins)  at the east end of City airport, purposely in my “other car “, my then 19 year old Vauxhall Astra.. security werent sure to let me in, when I had to manually wind down the windows.

 

Haven't been brave enough to try it at Biggin Hill though, definitely a bit more stiff upper lip there, that and that car probably couldnt climb the hills upto it.

Edited April 19, 2021 by adb968008

[Northmoor]

I haven't had the@adb968008 experience of £200/night hotels, but when I used to work at RN dockyards I had some very good experiences of hotels at a third of that price. 

 

It isn't a coincidence that they weren't big chains, in fact my favourite was the Duke of Cornwall in Plymouth (Best Western are a franchise, not a chain so the hotels have more individual character) which I must have stayed in at least a dozen times.  I could ring up after a six month gap and they'd say, " Ah Mr Northmoor, yes you prefer a shower in your room, is that right?".  They actually had the same staff from one year to the next, some others didn't in the same month.  Breakfasts actually cooked to order instead of off a hot plate where it's been drying out for an hour.  

Another favourite was near Faslane where during one of my colleagues' stays - gutted I missed this - there was a complete powercut.  The owners/staff responded by lighting candles in the bar, closed the till and started passing round the single malt Scotch.

 

The point about really poor hotels is well made though, I have known so many small businessmen who seem to fail at the basics.  I booked a work reunion for eight a couple of years ago and when we turned up at the pub a month later, found it closed for rebuilding.  They'd taken our booking (knowing they'd be shut) and a contact number but failed to let us know.  Whenever I hear small businessmen complain how hard it is running their own business I always think to myself that yes it is, but it's particularly difficult if you're an idiot. 

[adb968008]

34 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

 

The point about really poor hotels is well made though, I have known so many small businessmen who seem to fail at the basics.  I booked a work reunion for eight a couple of years ago and when we turned up at the pub a month later, found it closed for rebuilding.  They'd taken our booking (knowing they'd be shut) and a contact number but failed to let us know.  Whenever I hear small businessmen complain how hard it is running their own business I always think to myself that yes it is, but it's particularly difficult if you're an idiot. 

You dont need to be a small business, to own a shabby hotel.

 

Ive stayed at numerous hotels (one chain congratulated me on passing 2000 nights just with them)... but whilst one hotel in that chain could be £50 and completely upmarket, spotless and fantastic service, another the next day could be £350 and an absolute dump.

[I should point out I travel on expenses, not my money, otherwise i’d have a house full of Bachmann BEPs and not be moaning about price of rtr]...

 

once in the 90’s when I was not long after being a student, I was working for a well known book company in Seattle, who put me up in a suite in the Westin, but on friday night when done, I left it for a packbackers hostel for $20 a night to hang out with “my kin”, fellow backpackers in the locality, for drinks and a fun night out...returned sunday night... am too old and uncool for that now ;-)

Edited April 19, 2021 by adb968008

[rob D2]

48 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I met Chris in a shopping centre in Sandton... versace suit an all, when he shook my hand he nearly lifted me off the ground. Friendly guy.

 

My brother in law flies private jets (netjets mostly), first time he flew into the UK, c2010, I met him at the private “terminal”, if you can call it that,( portacabins)  at the east end of City airport, purposely in my “other car “, my then 19 year old Vauxhall Astra.. security werent sure to let me in, when I had to manually wind down the windows.

 

Haven't been brave enough to try it at Biggin Hill though, definitely a bit more stiff upper lip there, that and that car probably couldnt climb the hills upto it.

Well my 2006 Astra has seen me through various Boeing products ! Probably got as many miles 

[corneliuslundie]

Come on, now, fellow RMWebbers. I did at least mention aeroplanes in my post!

I think the issue is that we are all going to have to make a lot of changes to lifestyle over the next few decades - vide the news this morning - and a lot of them will be uncomfortable and often against our gut feelings as to what is the best way ahead. And I notice that international air travel got a mention in that news item.

Jonathan

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

Come on, now, fellow RMWebbers. I did at least mention aeroplanes in my post!

I think the issue is that we are all going to have to make a lot of changes to lifestyle over the next few decades - vide the news this morning - and a lot of them will be uncomfortable and often against our gut feelings as to what is the best way ahead. And I notice that international air travel got a mention in that news item.

Jonathan

But back to my point...

 

you cannot uninvent something.

once its there, and desirable it becomes aspirational.

 

Asking 69mn brits to stop flying for the environment will only alienate 69mn brits, because theres 1bn Chinese and 1bn Indian who all aspire to want the life we have.

So coercing, forcing us to dampen our lifestyle to live like our grandparents will backfire, as most of the world doesnt want to live like their grandparents either.

The country has has 12 years of this already, and is falling behind the rest of the world, which has largely shrugged its shoulders and carried on advancing without us. In the last decade Britains become a crueller, colder darker place, and to me risks becoming more like 1930’s Germany on its current path.

Britain is a nation of wannabe dictators, who openly say what we should be doing, perhaps the danger of that is why over 1000 years we created a democracy to prevent it. 

What I think is we really need is constructive solutions, alternatives to focus and stimulate our mindsets.. not environmental terrorists trying to implement local controls and restrictions... at home or abroad...

 

Having a research & marketing approach, improve our global mindset (not a short term invent it and sell it), develop new ideas capitalise them and sell it everywhere ourselves... rather than sell the IP to the US who then get the chinese to make it and book the profits in the caymans.

 

Tree huggers too should be encouraged to come up with suggestions that dont involve the easy words of No or Ban... 

 

imagine if an aircraft was developed, that flew commercially, successfully on solar, no emissions, built here, sold everywhere... what would the swampys have to say then, to try and ban it ?

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by adb968008

[corneliuslundie]

"Having a research & marketing approach, improve our global mindset (not a short term invent it and sell it), develop new ideas capitalise them and sell it everywhere ourselves... rather than sell the IP to the US who then get the chinese to make it and book the profits in the caymans."

Agreed whole heartedly. As you say, we continually invent and develop things and then effectively give them to others to profit from.

And I am certainly not a "tree hugger" though I think that we have probably not realised until very recently the way trees and other plants actually interact so that, for example, if we had been starting HS2 now we might have put more emphasis in retaining established woodland and less on tunnels (note I do not say ancient woodland which is a pretty meaningless phrase, simply indicating woodland that was on the earliest authoritative maps). And I am concerned that the latest emphasis on  reducing meat and dairy would be counter productive because of the different components of our diet which the various parts provide - and as my wife has commented it is now only cows which emit certain gases, humans do, and more if they are vegetarian.

What we need is an holistic view of things, which the modern age seems very difficult to provide and modern education seems not to encourage.

But back to your point about popularity, I am afraid that that does not win in the long run either, it merely puts off the difficult decisions until they are forced on you because things have already deteriorated.

No, I am not advocating either anarchy or dictatorship. We have to make the best we can (and it is usually a pretty poor best) of so called representative democracy.

Anyway, back to railways?

Jonathan

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Come on, now, fellow RMWebbers. I did at least mention aeroplanes in my post!

I think the issue is that we are all going to have to make a lot of changes to lifestyle over the next few decades - vide the news this morning - and a lot of them will be uncomfortable and often against our gut feelings as to what is the best way ahead. And I notice that international air travel got a mention in that news item.

Yes, and I find it's another step towards a future that looks very bleak and depressing and I really wish I wasn't going to live to see. It may be a necessary evil but that doesn't stop it leaving me with no hope for a better future, it all just increases my depression.

 

Although personally I'm not all that bothered about less international travel.

[adb968008]

7 hours ago, Reorte said:

Yes, and I find it's another step towards a future that looks very bleak and depressing and I really wish I wasn't going to live to see. It may be a necessary evil but that doesn't stop it leaving me with no hope for a better future, it all just increases my depression.

 

Although personally I'm not all that bothered about less international travel.

International travel is what separates us from Europe.

 

For centuries Europeans have stamped on each others soil, so much so that cultural boundaries are very similar, even though they have different languages, they enjoy food, behaviours and ideas which are often overlapping, if not outright the same as their previously conquered, or conquering neighbour, often due to the map being redrawn.

 

But thats where outlook differs, Britain, France, Spain, Netherlands and Portugal have rich history way beyond Europe, way beyond their neighbours lands. That outlook shapes culture and behaviour, Britain is much more so having been the one with the empire that faded most recent...  having that cultural awareness is what gives the mindset to separate from the herd, to know they don't have to follow. Spain really is the only other country I see in Europe that absolutely takes advantage of its global network.. South America is rich pickings for Spanish businesses. “International” for much of Europe is visiting the Mediterranean, a business trip to Germany or a cultural visit to the neighbours.

 

Now we are out, the very last thing I think we should be is insular.. we need to travel further and wider than before, and hopefully the tracks haven't gotten too rusty and ripped up since last time we travelled them, but we need to be cogniscent that whilst we've been away, they haven't been idle and we are considered “new” entrants to those markets... if we don't go to new markets, we will forever be in Europes shadow, if they chose to consider coming to ours.

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by adb968008