Baseboard Section Advice

[burtos]

Hi All

 

Looking to build a TMD in OO Gauge within a size 12ft by 4ft, there will be a double rack oval running the outside of the layouts concerning the sizes of the baseboards, on the attachment the thick blue line is the back scene board that separates the TMD from the fiddle yard behind. 

 

options considered

( red hashed line)   

2x  6ft by 4ft boards 

 

(Blue Hashed Line)

2x 1ft by 6ft

2x 3ft by 6ft

 

(Green Hashed Line)

4x 6ft by 2ft

 

As ill be working in the garage which can fit the layout and I'm able to walk around it once up. but thinking logically if i bought the Blue hash option i could build the front section up and than attach the 1ft section on after to lay the fiddle yard or vise versor. 

It would give me more room than to work on each section. 

 

Only issue is the cost as the less boards used the cheaper it is. 

 

Just seeing if anyone had any ideas on which is the best way to do this. (Also thinking of maybe once done taking it to exhibitions if deemed good enough once done. 

 

P.S.  Don't worry about the actual layout of the track it is about 80% done but not completely from what i want. 

 

Ill try and add a more up to date track layout. 

[sjp23480]

Hi Burtos,

 

Where possible, I would minimise the number of points where the tracks cross the boards.  Where they do cross, its best if the tracks lay at 90 degress the board join.  Depending on the method of construction, any board more than 4x3 can be difficult to handle (heavy and awkward) without damaging fixtures and fittings on the boards.

 

I would consider 4 boards each measuring 4'x3',  splitting the layout at four points along is length, and rearranging the tracks around the board joins to ensure they sit at 90 degrees to the board joins.

 

Stephen

 

[Zomboid]

I think the issue is basically around how often are you going to take it apart, and how do in intend to handle it when you do? If it's permanent and will only be taken apart when the layout is being finally dismantled, then there's little need to break it down into sections. If you're planning to have a portable layout then you'll need to break it down into whatever you can regularly handle with the assistance you'll have available.

[Michael Hodgson]

Sorry if this comes across as negative, but at least you're at the right stage if changes are to be made.

All three versions show a break between boards down the middle.  They also show pointwork across that board joint.  Never a good idea!

I appreciate the cost issue but penny-pinching on the timber needed isn't worth it - decide what;s most suited to your intended use, and build accordingly.

 

I would also question whether you can really fit that layout onto the board in OO at all, though it might fit in N or 009 - you seem to have put a double track 90 degree turn onto a board 1' wide.  So what's your minimum radius?  

 

As Zomboid says, the main reason for a lot of board joints is ease of transport - are you planning to take it to shows, and if so build what best suits your vehicle.    

 

If is is going to be for exhibitions I would consider making the TMD one/two boards and the outer circle as a completely separate structure, those baseboards perhaps not going to shows.  With maybe a separate fiddle yard baseboard that only gets used at shows?

 

If it is going to stay in the middle of your garage, one option I would consider is to suspend the whole lot from pulleys so I could hoist it out of the way and thus still be able to use the space for the car, or as a workshop etc.

 

If it is a "fixed" layout that you envisage staying in the garage but perhaps going to another garage when you move house, I would go for the 2 6' x 4' boards.

[burtos]

Thanks all for your advice, i have now attached the OO Gauge layout plan (still in progress) as the previous one was my initial idea but in N gauge.

 

As you can see, i still have the backboard (in blue) about 1ft from top edge of board. left side is an embarkment with a motorway going over and disappearing into a tunnel.

The hatched blue is the area I'm thinking for controller, switch board, all raised to allow the trains to run underneath. 

 

Reduced the fiddle yard from 8 to 5 lines which still fit within the size. 

 

If the points are over the board joins than it will need some tweaking.  

 

I wouldn't be visiting many shows at the start just a local one, so would probably just use a transit van anyway, as my car is a Citroen DS3 so not the best for transporting layouts. 

 

I am nudging towards the 6x3 and 6x1 option in baseboards. 

[ITG]

6x4 and 6x3 boards are cumbersome to move around. I wouldn’t want to do that too often. In my limited experience, a board feels like it is 50% bigger when you have to really take care not to crash/brush against obstacles for fear of damage to details.

 

My biggest boards were 6x1 and 4x2. Track was laid and wired in garage, and then a once only move into railway room. Not at all easy!

Also worth thinking about how many people will ALWAYS be on hand to help, because if boards need to be manoeuvred to join/unjoin in both a front/back and right/left motion at same time, that is doubly difficult.  

[RobinofLoxley]

Two points about the track plan. Firstly have you tried planning it in streamline rather than Set Track. Second, I cant really understand how the yard part will operate. The longest thing that can get up the labyrinth is a loco coupled to max 3 waggons or one coach. Whereas the fiddle yard sidings can take slightly longer rakes. Third, no station?

 

Eight by four is very tricky to move anywhere. Once layouts get beyond a certain size and complexity I should think reassembly with all tracks lined up and nothing derailing would be a mission for the most experienced layout builder.

[Jeff Smith]

Unless you have a real desire to run trains round and round a narrow end to fiddle yard is much more exhibitable.  Standing behind a four foot layout, with maybe another one or two feet of barrier space makes it difficult to talk to viewers, or vice versa.  I would suggest a maximum of two feet width with low backscene.  Ideally three foot boards, but no longer than four.  If limited to 12 feet length then four three foot boards, three scenic and one fiddle yard - these can be arranged in pairs face to face for transportation.  Legs can be folding a-frame trestles with adjustable feet.  A TMD would be basically flat so you could use solid tops but a lighter solution is to only have solid top under the track and fill the rest in with wire and papier mache, this would allow for some undulation both above and below track level, ie a pond or spoil tip etc.  Use Streamline track and electrofrog points as you'll be doing a lot of slow running......  I presume this will be a diesel depot hence no turntable? 

 

Good luck figuring out what you want to do.  In the eighties I exhibited an OO terminus to fiddle yard layout.  Three two by four boards, held in a stack with end boards for transportation.  It was heavy even though the tops were fibre board.  The decision to do end to end or round and round possibly requires experience of both.  A few years ago I built an eight by four On30 oval layout and got very bored operating it.  Now my layouts are all linear.

[dasatcopthorne]

With my many years ((46) of building, moving layouts, my best advice probably repeats others'.

Think about you ability to lift and / or move the boards. Not only at the beginning but with all the wiring and scenery.

 

Dave.

 

[Dungrange]

I think I'd ask how serious you are about the idea of exhibiting the layout?  What are the venues that you would hope to exhibit at like?  The large shows are easy, as it's often possible to drive a van into the hall and unload at the correct location.  However, for many smaller local shows, access is much less convenient and will involve parking on the street or in a car park that is 50 yards from the hall.  In such instances, you have to carry the layout over a significant distance, rotate it to fit through the entrance door, change the orientation again to carry it up a few steps and then rotate to get it through another door.  A six foot by four foot baseboard is a cumbersome beast that's much bigger than a door and once covered in track, scenery and point motors etc, probably weights four times as much as a typical door.  That's not something I'd want to carry about too often.  Remember that there will also be other people around when you are carrying this cumbersome beast into the exhibition venue, so you need to avoid them as much as the walls, door handles, handrails etc. 

 

My model railway club has several layouts, but I think the largest board sizes we have are five foot by 2' 6" and these can be awkward enough.  They are boxed in pairs with the scenery facing inwards, but we've several members who will decline carrying them because they're heavy.  I wouldn't be keen on six foot boards, certainly not if they are at least three foot wide, if you really plan on exhibiting the layout.  Large baseboards, which limit the number of track joins, are ideal for a permanent home layout, where all you need is to be able to dismantle the layout to work on one part or if you move house, but a larger number of smaller boards would be preferable if you intend exhibiting the layout, with something like four foot by two foot or four foot by 2' 6" probably being about the optimum size.  I'd therefore go for six four foot by two foot boards, but if I had to choose one of your options, I'd go with the green one: four six foot by two foot boards.

 

However, if this layout is unlikely to ever be exhibited and spend most of it's life permanently erected in one place, then your red option: two six foot by four foot boards may be the one to go for.

[Jeff Smith]

Here's another thing to consider, the larger the board the more sturdy the construction may need to be.  A solid top 6'x4' board is 24 square feet of say half inch plywood plus edging and at least two cross braces.  These can be positioned to avoid point motors but will be required.  Probably about the weight of an 8'x4' sheet of ply.

[burtos]

Thanks for all your inputs

 

I think going forward the exhibitions side of it may not come to fruition, so the model will probably for at least first few years be in the garage. 

 

On 12/04/2021 at 14:29, Michael Hodgson said:

Sorry if this comes across as negative, but at least you're at the right stage if changes are to be made.

All three versions show a break between boards down the middle.  They also show pointwork across that board joint.  Never a good idea!

I appreciate the cost issue but penny-pinching on the timber needed isn't worth it - decide what;s most suited to your intended use, and build accordingly.

 

I would also question whether you can really fit that layout onto the board in OO at all, though it might fit in N or 009 - you seem to have put a double track 90 degree turn onto a board 1' wide.  So what's your minimum radius?  

 

As Zomboid says, the main reason for a lot of board joints is ease of transport - are you planning to take it to shows, and if so build what best suits your vehicle.    

 

If is is going to be for exhibitions I would consider making the TMD one/two boards and the outer circle as a completely separate structure, those baseboards perhaps not going to shows.  With maybe a separate fiddle yard baseboard that only gets used at shows?

 

If it is going to stay in the middle of your garage, one option I would consider is to suspend the whole lot from pulleys so I could hoist it out of the way and thus still be able to use the space for the car, or as a workshop etc.

 

If it is a "fixed" layout that you envisage staying in the garage but perhaps going to another garage when you move house, I would go for the 2 6' x 4' boards.

 

The first layout drawing is in N gauge using the peco 100 settrack. the track for the curves are ST-15 for the inner curve and ST-17 for the outer, i could go ST-17 (inner) and ST-19 (outer) for the curves. if it works and fits better. 

 

Garage is mainly used for the model as the car will fit inside but be hard job opening the doors to get out (good old modern builds). 

 

 

 

For the layout design i could maybe create a less complicated TMD layout, could have 2 separate tmd areas with 1 line each  coming in from the main line and an joining track from each area within. 

 

Station wise i did mock up something on the first picture (bottom right of layout).

 

 

[Harlequin]

Hi Burtos,

 

If the layout is unlikely to move very often and you've got room to walk around it, why don't you create a more traditional setup with the layout around the outside of the space and a hole in the middle, the "operating well", from where you operate it?

There are good reasons why this design is preferred when you can do it:

• The trains are all around you.
• You don't have to move so far to reach everywhere.
• The fiddle yard can be open on one side.
• There's more length for the track and the curves can be larger radius.
• Etc., etc...

You wouldn't then have to worry about joining boards together in a tessellation - they just join end to end.

 

Then you could think about using Streamline parts instead of Settrack to improve the appearance of the track work (and fit more storage loops in the fiddle yard).

 

BTW: Why are you still talking about using N gauge parts when you are designing a OO gauge layout? It's very confusing! For example in OO gauge (4mm scale) your "station" loops are little more than a foot long.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Harlequin

[Jeff Smith]

I always like to mock up some track formation using either real points or printed templates from the Peco website.  Knowing the length of some stock you intend to use will allow you to plan loop lengths etc.  It always takes more space than you imagine!

[burtos]

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Burtos,

 

If the layout is unlikely to move very often and you've got room to walk around it, why don't you create a more traditional setup with the layout around the outside of the space and a hole in the middle, the "operating well", from where you operate it?

There are good reasons why this design is preferred when you can do it:

• The trains are all around you.
• You don't have to move so far to reach everywhere.
• The fiddle yard can be open on one side.
• There's more length for the track and the curves can be larger radius.
• Etc., etc...

You wouldn't then have to worry about joining boards together in a tessellation - they just join end to end.

 

Then you could think about using Streamline parts instead of Settrack to improve the appearance of the track work (and fit more storage loops in the fiddle yard).

 

BTW: Why are you still talking about using N gauge parts when you are designing a OO gauge layout? It's very confusing! For example in OO gauge (4mm scale) your "station" loops are little more than a foot long.

 

Hi harlequin

 

Concerning the operating well design or as I call it the donut layout. That is the shape of my previous layout which I recently sold that was 12ft long and nearly 7ft wide. With a double track double loop over 2 levels. so now looking to do something different.  

 

In that I used radius 2 and 3 curves which gave me enough space from one end to the other to create a long terminus 4 platform setup down one side.

 

That was 2 x 6ft by 2ft baseboards down each side than 2 smaller gap fills to complete the circuit 

Edited April 13, 2021 by burtos

[Jeff Smith]

Here's another idea.  An L shaped layout with a fiddle yard in the short side of the L and a corner board that is reversible so that the yard can go either in front or behind the scenic side for home or exhibition use.  Will need a walkabout controller for operating from both front and back.

[burtos]

13 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Here's another idea.  An L shaped layout with a fiddle yard in the short side of the L and a corner board that is reversible so that the yard can go either in front or behind the scenic side for home or exhibition use.  Will need a walkabout controller for operating from both front and back.

 

thanks for the idea Jeff, with your idea in mind came up with this idea

 

Green line is the back board (should also go along the back behind the station also)

 

Black is the road with bridges across the railway. 

 

Just struggling to organize the fiddle yard into a better way (any suggestions would be helpful)

Also would the red line bring anything to the layout or would it be a little too much.  its just a loop round in front of a road embankment than turning into a tunnel going than through to the fiddle yard. 

[ITG]

Accepting others have said similar, but it would give (any) layout a different look and feel if planned (and indeed laid) using flexitrack. Distances between parallel tracks and curves would change a lot.

[Jeff Smith]

11 hours ago, burtos said:

 

thanks for the idea Jeff, with your idea in mind came up with this idea

 

Green line is the back board (should also go along the back behind the station also)

 

Black is the road with bridges across the railway. 

 

Just struggling to organize the fiddle yard into a better way (any suggestions would be helpful)

Also would the red line bring anything to the layout or would it be a little too much.  its just a loop round in front of a road embankment than turning into a tunnel going than through to the fiddle yard. 

The station loop is too short and the release road too long, it only needs to be just over the length of the longest loco.  Also the fiddle yard track feeding the station is too short.  If you put the station at the back and lengthen the fiddle yard track feeding it you can have a longer train.  A sector plate fiddle yard saves a lot of space.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Jeff Smith

[TonyMay]

This is a bit of a mess of half-baked ideas that need solidifying.  What's the real-world justification for your layout?

 

If you haven't bought the track yet, it's better to move away from Peco or Hornby set-track and adopt Peco Streamline track.

 

If your interested in locos, and most moves on/off shed are light engine, then the fiddle yard can be cassette-based and quite small.  2-3 car DMUs are middling size and require medium FY, which can also be cassettes, whereas full length HSTs require fiddle yards of similar length, and cassettes are difficult.

 

The station "passing loop" is a not a passing loop but a run-round loop.  Necessary for some modern engineering trains but otherwise not used.

[Zomboid]

I think talk of baseboard sections and track layouts is a bit premature.

 

What do you enjoy about model railways? What era are we talking? What are your essential requirements?

 

At the moment it looks a bit like you've defined a space, filled it with track and called it a loco facility, which is unlikely to result in an enjoyable layout.

[DCB]

I would go with 4 boards each 4ft X 4ft.  With minor tweaks the scenic poinwork would fit the centre 4X4 and the hidden pointwork the end 4 X 4s.

The concept is good in my opinion.  Its the one my never t be completed loft layout was based around  A small station with a large MPD,  Quite common, in big cities just along the line from major stationsi.  Light engines go on and off shed (backwards) to pick up trains from the H/S. then come back past forwards at speed with their trains.   Couple of short platforms R/H lower instead of the loops for local passenger to call at.. Mine had return loops but basically  that's why it didn't work.   If the imagined main station is one end and the Carirage sidigs the other then Piots and tank engines can shuttle the stock one way and train engines bring it back.  Loads of scope for locos and operating, loco coal arriving.  Masses of operating scope.

Get your basebard materials from skips, or my favourte scrapped panel Vans. 1970s interior doors have nice 2X2" or better timbers 6ft long and are often available free and don't warp like the DiY store force dried variety. Reuse, recycle, save the planet etc.  

[burtos]

11 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

The station loop is too short and the release road too long, it only needs to be just over the length of the longest loco.  Also the fiddle yard track feeding the station is too short.  If you put the station at the back and lengthen the fiddle yard track feeding it you can have a longer train.  A sector plate fiddle yard saves a lot of space.

Hi Jeff

 

the thinking is if i wanted to run two locos connected together as 1 than the length of the track would need to be around 2ft or more so that is why it is long after the station 

[burtos]

2 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

I would go with 4 boards each 4ft X 4ft.  With minor tweaks the scenic poinwork would fit the centre 4X4 and the hidden pointwork the end 4 X 4s.

The concept is good in my opinion.  Its the one my never t be completed loft layout was based around  A small station with a large MPD,  Quite common, in big cities just along the line from major stationsi.  Light engines go on and off shed (backwards) to pick up trains from the H/S. then come back past forwards at speed with their trains.   Couple of short platforms R/H lower instead of the loops for local passenger to call at.. Mine had return loops but basically  that's why it didn't work.   If the imagined main station is one end and the Carirage sidigs the other then Piots and tank engines can shuttle the stock one way and train engines bring it back.  Loads of scope for locos and operating, loco coal arriving.  Masses of operating scope.

Get your basebard materials from skips, or my favourte scrapped panel Vans. 1970s interior doors have nice 2X2" or better timbers 6ft long and are often available free and don't warp like the DiY store force dried variety. Reuse, recycle, save the planet etc.  

Hi David

 

The length of the layout is 12ft long and 3ft wide, with a 4ft by 2ft section used as the fiddle yard.  So will have 2x 6ft by 3 ft boards and 1x 4ft by 2ft.

 

I've tweaked the station now, so its more of a small terminus station, to hold 2 x 2 coach DMU's

 

Ive put more sidings within the fiddle yard also 

 

[burtos]

4 hours ago, Zomboid said:

I think talk of baseboard sections and track layouts is a bit premature.

 

What do you enjoy about model railways? What era are we talking? What are your essential requirements?

 

At the moment it looks a bit like you've defined a space, filled it with track and called it a loco facility, which is unlikely to result in an enjoyable layout.

 

Enjoyment is mostly derived from the actual building the layout than running it, but i do like running the trains also, era wise its modern sort of from early 2000's to now. 

 

Ive already done a small 8by 4 ft roundy roundy and sold that, than moved up to a 12ft by 7ft double track roundy, and have now sold that.

 

So probably looking for something a bit different and always liked the TMD layout, so thought to have a go at modelling that. 

 

Do you have any tmd layout plans that i could use and take ideas from that.  Or a list of what should be included in a TMD layout. 

 

Thanks