Philip1812 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 (edited) After the First World War, the LNWR honoured three of its employees who had volunteered for the army and who had all won Victoria Crosses, by naming three Claughton class locos after them: 1097 Private W. Woods V.C., 1407 L/Cpl J.A. Christie V.C., and 2035 Private E Sykes V.C. The LNWR and some other companies also dedicated one loco in honour of all of its employees who had been killed in action. As part of the research for an article I am writing, I am trying to find whether anything similar occurred after the end of WWII. At the moment I only have information on Driver Benjamin Gimbert GC and Fireman James Nightall GC who were awarded their medals for their bravery in averting a major explosion whilst driving an ammunition train which caught fire near Soham station in Cambridgeshire. Both these railwaymen had locos named in their honour, but not until 1981 when two class 47s were dedicated; currently their names are carried by two class 67s. More recently GWR has started to name some of its intercity trains in memory of WWII heroes, but as far as I can tell none of them are railwaymen. I am aware of the dedication on Stanier 8F 48733 (preserved on the Severn Valley Railway) as a memorial to all the members of the Corps of Royal Engineers (Transportation) who lost their lives in service, but this dedication was not made until 1986. Those Bullied Battle of Britain class locos which were named after individuals, were all named after high ranking officers. It may be that because nationalisation occurred so soon after the end of the war, no dedications of steam locomotives to railway employees were made, or equally it may be that I've missed something obvious. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Edited April 15, 2021 by Philip1812 transcription error from notes in name of loco 2035 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 36 minutes ago, Philip1812 said: .....Bullied Battle of Britain class locos which were named after individuals, were all named after high ranking officers. ..... ..... apart from "Fighter Pilot". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 I think it was a change of policy possibly instigated by the military from highlighting feats of "Derring Do" by individuals to naming them after regiments, squadrons, ships, airplanes, etc. More "we're all in it together" than "Private Joe Bloggs who took a machine gun post single handed and received the VC". Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 There is also the matter that unlike at the start of WW1, Railway workers were a reserved occupation in WW2, so there will not have been many railway workers in WW2 in a position to undertake military heroics. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip1812 Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 I'm sure that you are right about the link to reserved occupation status, which had occurred to me as well. I started the thread because I was concerned that I might have missed a named loco, but this now seems unlikely. I have found out that : "From 1948 until the mid-1950s, the responsibility for recommending names for locomotives on British Railways rested with a Locomotive Naming Committee of three senior railway officers, E. S. Cox, George Dow with Derek Barrie as chairman. The Committee set itself several rules and over the years developed many practices. . . . . . . Another rule was not to use names of people who were still alive at the time, and some on the Committee had a strong dislike of names or associations with the military (largely because they were fed-up with the recently ended war). " (Wikipedia, BR Standard Class 7) I have not yet had chance to trawl the archives at Kew for the minutes of the BR Locomotive Naming Committee to check whether this information is correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted April 19, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Philip1812 said: I'm sure that you are right about the link to reserved occupation status, which had occurred to me as well. I started the thread because I was concerned that I might have missed a named loco, but this now seems unlikely. I have found out that : "From 1948 until the mid-1950s, the responsibility for recommending names for locomotives on British Railways rested with a Locomotive Naming Committee of three senior railway officers, E. S. Cox, George Dow with Derek Barrie as chairman. The Committee set itself several rules and over the years developed many practices. . . . . . . Another rule was not to use names of people who were still alive at the time, and some on the Committee had a strong dislike of names or associations with the military (largely because they were fed-up with the recently ended war). " (Wikipedia, BR Standard Class 7) I have not yet had chance to trawl the archives at Kew for the minutes of the BR Locomotive Naming Committee to check whether this information is correct. I would rather locos be named after important military reasons, i.e. medal winners compared to say people that just did the day job, that they were paid for i.e. company directors. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firecrest Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 On 14/04/2021 at 16:28, Philip1812 said: After the First World War, the LNWR honoured three of its employees who had volunteered for the army and who had all won Victoria Crosses, by naming three Claughton class locos after them: 1097 Private W. Woods V.C., 1407 L/Cpl J.A. Christie V.C., and 2035 Private E Sykes V.C. The LNWR and some other companies also dedicated one loco in honour of all of its employees who had been killed in action. As part of the research for an article I am writing, I am trying to find whether anything similar occurred after the end of WWII. At the moment I only have information on Driver Benjamin Gimbert GC and Fireman James Nightall GC who were awarded their medals for their bravery in averting a major explosion whilst driving an ammunition train which caught fire near Soham station in Cambridgeshire. Both these railwaymen had locos named in their honour, but not until 1981 when two class 47s were dedicated; currently their names are carried by two class 67s. More recently GWR has started to name some of its intercity trains in memory of WWII heroes, but as far as I can tell none of them are railwaymen. I am aware of the dedication on Stanier 8F 48733 (preserved on the Severn Valley Railway) as a memorial to all the members of the Corps of Royal Engineers (Transportation) who lost their lives in service, but this dedication was not made until 1986. Those Bullied Battle of Britain class locos which were named after individuals, were all named after high ranking officers. It may be that because nationalisation occurred so soon after the end of the war, no dedications of steam locomotives to railway employees were made, or equally it may be that I've missed something obvious. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. 47471 was named after Norman Tunna GC, who won the award for his work during WWII - on Liverpool Docks during the bombing there I believe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip1812 Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 Thank you. That's new information to me and very useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 A class 66 (along with some buses etc) was recently named after Captain Tom Moore albeit not really because he did his bit during WW2 Some of the Deltics were named after regiments who served valiantly during WW2 There's a RHDR loco named Captain Howey after the line's founder, and they built an armoured train for WW2 Col Stephens of course served during WW1 but I don't think he named any of his engines after himself ! Some of the Claughtons were rebuilt as Patriot Class, and the name Private E Sykes V.C. was retained. Some other locos in this class were named after military units, including Home Guard (no, it wasn't named in honour of Capt. Mainwaring) And a Jubilee class loco was named Malta G.C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said: And a Jubilee class loco was named Malta G.C. Being pedantic (sorry!) 5616 was originally named just ‘Malta’ and renamed to ‘Malta GC’ during WW2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 OK, so the loco was awarded a medal, along with the islanders! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip1812 Posted April 21, 2021 Author Share Posted April 21, 2021 When the Claughtons were rebuilt as Patriots, the names Private W. Woods V.C. and Private E. Sykes V.C. were retained, but L/Cpl J.A. Christie V.C. was not, on the grounds that he was no longer an employee of the LMS, whereas the others were. The photo (from the Bob Essery collection) shows Driver Woods at the controls of Patriot class 5536 bearing his name. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2021 On 19/04/2021 at 16:17, Firecrest said: 47471 was named after Norman Tunna GC, who won the award for his work during WWII - on Liverpool Docks during the bombing there I believe Norman Tunna was a GWR shunter at Birkenhead. I understand that he was preparing a train loaded with bombs at the docks during an air raid when he found one wagon was on fire due to incendaries on the wagon sheet. He tried to put the fire out and remove the wagon sheet but one had gone through onto the bombs. Climbing into the wagon he managed to get the incendary out and the train crew helped bringing water to extinguish the fire and cool tbe load thus preventing a possible major explosion. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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