Piko 55044 PIKO Loconet Convertor Box Use with ECoS

[pheaton]

Hi All,

 

Anyone got any experience of using one of these as a loconet adaptor with the ECoS?

 

https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/piko-55044-piko-loconet-convertor-box.html

 

I would like to use one with my ECoS because its half the price of a ESU Lnet adaptor.

 

The site above says it does work, and it does look remarkably like an Lnet adaptor but wanted to see if anyone had any experience of using it with an ECoS.

 

Thanks

 

Simon

 

[Nigelcliffe]

No experience of it.   It looks like the ESU box so suspect a badge-engineered version.    As the retailer says "works with ECoS", then only risk of ordering is the hassle of trying it - if it doesn't work its a no-arguments return under distance selling as mis-described by the retailer.  

 

My recollection of ESU's own adaptor is that it was LocoNet-T (throttle), so lacked the RailSync signal of LocoNet-B (booster). 
That will mean a few LocoNet devices which rely on the RailSync won't function (notably in UK would include Signatrak/CML DTM30 panel controller).   Most things are fine on "T".  

[pheaton]

Hi Nigel,

 

Thanks for that im looking to use the Signatrak CML automatic signal controller SIGM20 with it.

 

Thanks

 

Simon

Edited April 20, 2021 by pheaton

[Nigelcliffe]

1 hour ago, pheaton said:

Thanks for that im looking to use the Signatrak CML automatic signal controller SIGM20 with it.

 

 

I'm not sure on the SIGM20 - its ages since I looked at one.  I don't think it uses RailSync (LocoNet-B), but you'll need to check.  

 

Simple check, if you have some standard LocoNet hardware, is to connect the SIGM20 to the "throttle" ports on the front of a Digitrax UP5 throttle panel.  Those are "Loconet-T"  (though Digitrax doesn't use the terms LocoNet-T and LocoNet-B).   

 

- Nigel

 

[pheaton]

2 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

I'm not sure on the SIGM20 - its ages since I looked at one.  I don't think it uses RailSync (LocoNet-B), but you'll need to check.  

 

Simple check, if you have some standard LocoNet hardware, is to connect the SIGM20 to the "throttle" ports on the front of a Digitrax UP5 throttle panel.  Those are "Loconet-T"  (though Digitrax doesn't use the terms LocoNet-T and LocoNet-B).   

 

- Nigel

 

from the manual...

 

These signals are defined in the LocoNet Specification which is available from Digitrax. The board decodes the DCC accessory packets from the RAIL_SYNC signals on these connectors.

 

would assume its using rail_sync

 

 

[Nigelcliffe]

2 minutes ago, pheaton said:

from the manual...

 

These signals are defined in the LocoNet Specification which is available from Digitrax. The board decodes the DCC accessory packets from the RAIL_SYNC signals on these connectors.

 

would assume its using rail_sync

 

 

 

If that's what the manual says its using RailSync, it won't work on LocoNet-T.     ( The DCC Accessory Packet is only available on the RailSync wires ).

 

There are ways of converting LocoNet-T back to LocoNet-B.    Essentially, disconnect the two wires carrying DC power in the six-wire LocoNet bundle, and insert the Booster signal to restore LocoNet-B.    But I'd probably be looking to put some sort of opto-isolation in the whole setup protect against "stuff going wrong".  

 

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

 

[pheaton]

Forgive my lack of understanding Nigel, but would it need specific support on the ECoS also? if the ECoS only supported Loconet T im on to a loser anyway am I not?

 

 

 

[Nigelcliffe]

6 minutes ago, pheaton said:

Forgive my lack of understanding Nigel, but would it need specific support on the ECoS also? if the ECoS only supported Loconet T im on to a loser anyway am I not?

 

 

Lots of guesswork, because I've not tried it, and its years since I was playing with the ESU LocoNet device and an ECoS. 

 

The ECoS knows what DCC Accessory packets were generated, those go out on the track feed and duplicated on the booster outputs (low current version of track feed).   
Any feedback from the SIGM20 comes over the four pairs of data LocoNet-T wires (the last pair being DC power for throttles).  Any RailSync pair in a LocoNet-B (carrying DCC signal) being "one way" from command station to device.  

 

So, injecting the Booster output looks like it works on paper.   But no idea what issues it may run into if you try to build it.   

 

 

 

- Nigel

[WIMorrison]

IIRC the Piko DCC controller was developed by ESU for PIko and is in effect a clone of the ESU product therefore I am surprised that these 2 units appear identical.

[GoingUnderground]

It's not quite a clone as it has 4 Loconet ports whereas ESU's L.Net module only has 2 ports. But as it uses the standard ESU accessory housing it is clearly made by ESU for use by owners of the original Piko SmartControl. 

 

My only concern would be whether the ECoS firmware recognises it. ESU did need to include a firmware change for the ECoS to recognise the L.Net module, firmware 3.7.0, when it was introduced. So the question is whether that change, or a subsequent change lets the Piko branded version work with the ECoS. If the retailer says it does and you find that it doesn't then you should be able to get a full refund as it wouldn't be fit for the purpose for which it was sold.

 

The Piko 55044 manual says that it needs SmartControl SmartBox 4.1.3 and as the SmartControl firmware versions seemed to run in step with the numbering of the ECoS versions you might need to be running ECoS firmware 4.1.3 or later. I haven't got access to the ECoS firmware 4.1.3 download file at the moment to see what the Release Notes for that version said. You can download the Piko manual from here https://www.piko-shop.de/en/artikel/loco-net-converter-23808.html 

 

I'm not surprised that it's cheaper than the L.Net as Piko seemed to enjoy undercutting ESU judging by their pricing of the original SmartControl, IIRC. It became an orphan in the Piko SmartControl ecosystem when Piko dropped the original ESU made SmartControl which used ECoSLink, and went with the Uhlenbrock made SmartControl Light which doesn't use ECoSLink. Because it uses ECoSLink the only devices that it can connect to are an ECoS or Maerklin CS1, or a CabControl or the Piko original SmartControl. I say "was" as DCC TrainAutomation shows them as out of stock and only available as a "Pre-order", really?. The Piko webshop shows them as sold out and I can't see Piko commissioning a further batch from ESU.

 

Like the L.Net module, because it is Loconet-T it only supports throttles and occupancy detectors, not boosters nor any devices that need the RailSync part of Loconet. The ECoS cannot provide RailSync and the L/Net module and presumably the Piko version are not built to do so either.

Edited April 20, 2021 by GoingUnderground