Minerva announce Siphon G

[Dreadnought05]

https://www.minervamodelrailways.co.uk/news/syphon-g-from-minerva-model-railways/

[Dan Randall]

I’d always hoped some enterprising manufacturer would announce a 7mm scale inside framed Siphon G and it’s finally happening!  This is bound to be a huge seller and I’ll be putting my name down for at least two Rail Blue examples.  Thank you Minerva!

 

 

Regards

 

Dan

[Beclawat]

What Dan said! Can't wait for this one. Nice one Minerva!

[57xx]

"tooling is already underway" - oh dear. From the small CAD image, it looks like the underframe is a complete work of fiction. I hope that is not representative of what is being produced.

[K14]

3 hours ago, 57xx said:

"tooling is already underway" - oh dear. From the small CAD image, it looks like the underframe is a complete work of fiction. I hope that is not representative of what is being produced.

 

I see a lack of battery/Regulator boxes & have a question mark over the trussing (2 or 4 sets?), but I feel calling it "a complete work of fiction" is a bit ott.

There are variations in u/f arrangements depending on the Lot Number.

[mountaingoat]

Dear Ric (or 57xx if you prefer to be anonymous!)

 

Thank you for your comment re 'a complete work of fiction '. Of course you will have the same drawings and photographs as we do, so will be qualified to make such sweeping comments.

 

As K14 has said, the underframes varied considerably, and we have to make a choice about which one to go with. So we stand by our offering, apart from the 'missing' battery boxes which do not appear on the CAD. They will be available, in two different sizes for the purchaser to add to their choice. Photographs show that these grew in size over the years, so we may have missed an intermediate size or two, but hopefully will cover the most common. Trusses are another issue, we have an option for 2 or 4, but have not committed either way as tooling is not at that stage. Handbrakes are another variant, we are minded to go with the later type at the moment as the body is tooled first.

 

Finally I hope this reassures you and you can retreat up to 'Colonville' with a peaceful mind

 

Chris Basten

Minerva Model Railways

[57xx]

10 hours ago, K14 said:

 

I see a lack of battery/Regulator boxes & have a question mark over the trussing (2 or 4 sets?), but I feel calling it "a complete work of fiction" is a bit ott.

There are variations in u/f arrangements depending on the Lot Number.

 

Maybe a bit OTT, but it looks nothing like any Siphon G I have seen. I've crawled under the Didcot one a lot, taking measurements and pics for the 4mm kit. I know there are at least two styles of trussing (looks like 2 sets there, but which of the two depths is it, is the orientation of the angle irons correct) and different brake setups (DC and lever) depending on Lot number. Vac cylinders are located wrongly for O33s, I don't recall seeing any with independent brakes per bogie.

Edited May 4, 2021 by 57xx

[Metr0Land]

16 minutes ago, mountaingoat said:

 

As K14 has said, the underframes varied considerably, and we have to make a choice about which one to go with. So we stand by our offering, apart from the 'missing' battery boxes which do not appear on the CAD. They will be available, in two different sizes for the purchaser to add to their choice.

 

Chris Basten

Minerva Model Railways

 

I do 4mm so have no axe to grind. I can't see this on the orginal press release on Apr20?  Might be a good idea to make clear any bits and bobs which aren't on the CAD but which ARE available?

[fezza]

It would be interesting to know if Chris has looked at the Didcot example. Is this a case of looking at drawings and assuming them to be correct and typical, rather than examining an example of the real thing? We've all done that at some point... 

 

It's certainly a welcome model in O gauge. 

[Miss Prism]

4 minutes ago, fezza said:

It would be interesting to know if Chris has looked at the Didcot example. Is this a case of looking at drawings and assuming them to be correct and typical, rather than examining an example of the real thing?

 

Woh. No disrespect to Didcot, but preserved things have often been rebuilt a few times from a collection of available bits, and so might not be representative of their time when running on the real railway, let alone as far back as GWR days. The HMRS siphons book is probably the best start, but no doubt Minerva have consulted that a long time ago!

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, mountaingoat said:

Dear Ric (or 57xx if you prefer to be anonymous!)

 

Thank you for your comment re 'a complete work of fiction '. Of course you will have the same drawings and photographs as we do, so will be qualified to make such sweeping comments.

 

As K14 has said, the underframes varied considerably, and we have to make a choice about which one to go with. So we stand by our offering, apart from the 'missing' battery boxes which do not appear on the CAD. They will be available, in two different sizes for the purchaser to add to their choice. Photographs show that these grew in size over the years, so we may have missed an intermediate size or two, but hopefully will cover the most common. Trusses are another issue, we have an option for 2 or 4, but have not committed either way as tooling is not at that stage. Handbrakes are another variant, we are minded to go with the later type at the moment as the body is tooled first.

 

Finally I hope this reassures you and you can retreat up to 'Colonville' with a peaceful mind

 

Chris Basten

Minerva Model Railways

 

Colonville could be an excellent name for an SNCF layout.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Surprised how little this thread has been taken up.

 

It's a great prototype to have chosen, as useful as a short branch train as on the mainline - and all the way into the BR blue era. I would, of course, prefer a 50' Stanier brake, but I could see myself buying one of these.

[fezza]

52 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Woh. No disrespect to Didcot, but preserved things have often been rebuilt a few times from a collection of available bits, and so might not be representative of their time when running on the real railway, let alone as far back as GWR days. The HMRS siphons book is probably the best start, but no doubt Minerva have consulted that a long time ago!

 

Yes, it is really a question of triangulation. Look at photos, drawings AND the real thing. Where there are differences and anomalies you then try and work out why. I'm not saying the Didcot example is "typical" but, if in doubt, I tend to trust the real world rather than drawing office work. In any case, good research can often identify later alterations. 

[K14]

12 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Woh. No disrespect to Didcot, but preserved things have often been rebuilt a few times from a collection of available bits, and so might not be representative of their time when running on the real railway, let alone as far back as GWR days. The HMRS siphons book is probably the best start, but no doubt Minerva have consulted that a long time ago!

 

 

Didcot's Siphon G has **never** been restored - just repainted & the roof canvas replaced with roofing felt back in the 70s (& re-canvassed properly when it was repainted a few years back).

The amount of glossed-over kack on the underframe ought to be obvious testimony to all who have eyes to see. If any rebuilds have occurred, then they'd have been in BR days & ought to be verifiable by referring to the appropriate Register.

 

12 hours ago, 57xx said:

 Vac cylinders are located wrongly for O33s, I don't recall seeing any with independent brakes per bogie.

 

Russell Coaches Vol 2:

Fig 308: 2992 L.1644/1945 - Offset 'independent' cylinders, lever brake, central batt boxes.

Fig 390: 2792 L.1578/1938 - Cylinders inline, DC lever, central batt boxes. Photo ex-works as built.

 

Russell Coaches Appendix Vol 2:

Fig 522: 2937 L.1644/1940 - offset 'independent' cylinders, lever brake, central batt boxes.

Fig 523: 2796 L.1578/1938 - Cylinders inline?, DC lever, central batt boxes? BR era photo.

 

RC 2 also has a Weight Drawing dated 7/1930 covering Lots 1441, 1651 & 1664 (so presumably amended over the years):

Lot 1441 - 7'-0" Bogies, 35'-0" centres, 49'-11" over headstocks, 53'-7" over buffers.

Lots 1651 & 1664 - 9'-0" Bogies (except for 4 unspecified fitted with 8'-6") 34'-6" centres, 1/2" smaller than L.1441 over headstocks & over buffers.

 

As to the model... since Minerva are planning on including the little slidey hatches from that suggests they're trying to find common ground between O.33 & O.62 - Good luck with that (unless it'd work with separate add-it-yourself battery/regulator boxes in addition to the vents)

 

Oh, and @mountaingoat - Please, it's Siphon, not Syphon.

 

Pete S.

[Marshall5]

On 04/05/2021 at 14:13, fezza said:

Yes, it is really a question of triangulation. Look at photos, drawings AND the real thing. Where there are differences and anomalies you then try and work out why. I'm not saying the Didcot example is "typical" but, if in doubt, I tend to trust the real world rather than drawing office work. In any case, good research can often identify later alterations. 

.....and sometimes sources are contradictory.  'Officially' the Siphon G's to Diag.O22 were electrically lit and this was repeated in Slinn & Co.'s Siphons book.  MRN of 10/52 has a drawing of an 022 which actually shows a dynamo and battery boxes.  However the Swindon works photo of the first O22 (number 1270) to be built clearly shows gas tanks - as does every other photo of an O22 that I can find.  I find the research for a model to be just as rewarding as actually building it.

Ray.

[57xx]

16 hours ago, K14 said:

 

Didcot's Siphon G has **never** been restored - just repainted & the roof canvas replaced with roofing felt back in the 70s (& re-canvassed properly when it was repainted a few years back).

The amount of glossed-over kack on the underframe ought to be obvious testimony to all who have eyes to see. If any rebuilds have occurred, then they'd have been in BR days & ought to be verifiable by referring to the appropriate Register.

 

 

Russell Coaches Vol 2:

Fig 308: 2992 L.1644/1945 - Offset 'independent' cylinders, lever brake, central batt boxes.

Fig 390: 2792 L.1578/1938 - Cylinders inline, DC lever, central batt boxes. Photo ex-works as built.

 

Russell Coaches Appendix Vol 2:

Fig 522: 2937 L.1644/1940 - offset 'independent' cylinders, lever brake, central batt boxes.

Fig 523: 2796 L.1578/1938 - Cylinders inline?, DC lever, central batt boxes? BR era photo.

 

RC 2 also has a Weight Drawing dated 7/1930 covering Lots 1441, 1651 & 1664 (so presumably amended over the years):

Lot 1441 - 7'-0" Bogies, 35'-0" centres, 49'-11" over headstocks, 53'-7" over buffers.

Lots 1651 & 1664 - 9'-0" Bogies (except for 4 unspecified fitted with 8'-6") 34'-6" centres, 1/2" smaller than L.1441 over headstocks & over buffers.

 

As to the model... since Minerva are planning on including the little slidey hatches from that suggests they're trying to find common ground between O.33 & O.62 - Good luck with that (unless it'd work with separate add-it-yourself battery/regulator boxes in addition to the vents)

 

Oh, and @mountaingoat - Please, it's Siphon, not Syphon.

 

Pete S.

 

Thanks for the clarification, Pete. Lot 1644 appears to be one that bypassed me when looking at the O33s. Apologies to Chris for the original comments.

 

I'm surprised people still trot out the "most things in preservation have probably been hacked around" line. Does a great disservice to teams like yours. I can remember someone getting a dressing down from Drew for the same thing when they implied all the wagon brakes had been messed with and nothing was original. Ref 2796, having spent a day underneath it, I can attest that it appears to be original. DC brakes, inline cylinders, shallow trussing, central battery box and the original 8'6" bogies.

[sidmouth]

if it looks like a Siphon G then little intricacies I can forgive,as A , I just wouldn't know and B unless i'm looking very close I wouldn't see them. To me capturing the look and feel of the overall prototype is key  . I'm certainly ordering at least one 

[mopar]

On 09/05/2021 at 19:21, sidmouth said:

if it looks like a Siphon G then little intricacies I can forgive,as A , I just wouldn't know and B unless i'm looking very close I wouldn't see them. To me capturing the look and feel of the overall prototype is key  . I'm certainly ordering at least one 

Same here. Not really that worried if an underslung cylinder or box is slightly out of position. A grubby blue one will look fine in a mid 70's mixed rake parcels train.

[mopar]

Just wondering if we have any progress on the G?

 

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Chris, any news on these as I have one on advance order?

 

Cheers, Ade. 

 

 

[Marshall5]

Chris Basten posted this on the 7mm scale Society forum yesterday "Fingers crossed, we will have at least a sample Siphon at Telford Stafford. But will also have lots of photos etc. on the website and FB as well, so if you can't actually pick it up, you can at least look at it!!"

Cheers,

Ray.

[GWR57xx]

Hope all is well at Minerva.

I was hoping to have seen some photos of the Siphon by now, but nothing on the website.

I don’t do FB so can’t see if anything has been posted there - it’s a private site so not open to everyone.

 

[GWR57xx]

First EP will be on show at Guildford on 26th according to Minerva’s latest news article 🙂.

[Dan Randall]

On 18/11/2022 at 08:09, GWR57xx said:

First EP will be on show at Guildford on 26th according to Minerva’s latest news article 🙂.

 

And very nice it looked too!....

 

 

Regards 

 

Dan

 

 

[Kickstart]

It did look good at Guildford

 

All the best

 

Katy