what basic connection do I need to test/run a loco?

[Royal42]

I am planning to get a pre-used/cheap steam loco soon, possibly off the 'bay or at any upcoming show, but don't yet have a layout.  What is the absolute minimum I will need in order to test a loco, or to run it on a short strip of track? 

 

cheers,

Mike

Edited April 20, 2021 by Royal42

[WIMorrison]

Command station with controller, 2 wires to the track and a decoder in the loco

 

[AndrueC]

A nine volt battery

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MVQb2ozRSz6GDFvXA

 

Although it won't confirm that the decoder is fine and some locos don't run very well off 9v if they have a decoder fitted - one of mine barely moved. In that video the Queen Elizabeth is fitted with a blank, so configured for DC but I have another video of a DCC enabled HST running on 9v (albeit slowly I think).

Edited April 20, 2021 by AndrueC

[WIMorrison]

25 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

A nine volt battery

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MVQb2ozRSz6GDFvXA

 

Although it won't confirm that the decoder is fine and some locos don't run very well off 9v if they have a decoder fitted - one of mine barely moved. In that video the Queen Elizabeth is fitted with a blank, so configured for DC but I have another video of a DCC enabled HST running on 9v (albeit slowly I think).

 

Also, won't work if DC has been disabled - hence the need for a minimum DCC set up as I quoted.

[Royal42]

1 hour ago, Royal42 said:

I am planning to get a pre-used/cheap steam loco soon, possibly off the 'bay or at any upcoming show, but don't yet have a layout.  What is the absolute minimum I will need in order to test a loco, or to run it on a short strip of track?

 

 

cheers,

Mike

Hi WIMorrison,

please excuse my ignorance, I am a total newbie to model railways, the last time I had a train set was a Princess Elizabeth and coaches back in 1958 (ish).  I have just googled your description and it came up with something out of NASA, with screens and software costing hundreds of pounds.

Has the technology moved on so much that we cannot just have a little box, one end plugged into the wall socket the other connected to the track; with a little red knob that you turned to make the loco move?

What is a decoder?  How would I know if there was one in a loco?

 

cheers,
Mike

Edited April 20, 2021 by Royal42

[Free At Last]

As you have posted in the DCC section of the forum it has been assumed you wanted advice on testing/running a DCC fitted loco.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Free At Last

[Royal42]

Sorry about that Pete, I didn't realise what DCC meant and just asked in the power forum.  Could you help be advising which section to post this query please?

Apologies to WIMorrison.

cheers,
Mike

[Free At Last]

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/63-electrics-non-dcc/

[Dungrange]

40 minutes ago, Royal42 said:

I didn't realise what DCC meant and just asked in the power forum.

 

48 minutes ago, Royal42 said:

Has the technology moved on so much that we cannot just have a little box, one end plugged into the wall socket the other connected to the track; with a little red knob that you turned to make the loco move?

What is a decoder?  How would I know if there was one in a loco?

 

DCC stands for 'Digital Command Control' and is a method of operation where a Command Station sends a digital signal to the track.  Each locomotive has to have a decoder fitted inside, which detects the digital signal from the Command Station and decides whether to act on the command sent or ignore it.  Think of it as the Command Station saying 'Locomotive Number 3, move forward at speed step 6'.  The locomotive with a decoder programmed with address 3 will respond, but the ones with address 1, 2, 4 or any other number wont.  It means that you can control several locomotives independently on the same track at the same time.

 

If a locomotive has a DCC decoder fitted, then it will usually be described as 'DCC Fitted'.  If a locomotive is described as 'DCC Ready' then it means that it has a socket inside that allows the user to plug a DCC decoder in, but it can't be used as is on a DCC layout.  If it doesn't say anything, then it probably means it's an older model, which may be less straightforward to convert to DCC and will need a soldering iron to 'hardwire' a decoder.

 

A new DCC Fitted locomotive can be used on an analogue controlled layout.  However, if you are buying second hand, then the DCC user may have disabled the ability to run on an analogue or Direct Current (DC) layout.  If you accidently bought such a locomotive, you could open it up, remove the decoder and fit a blanking plug, which would effectively convert it back from a DCC locomotive to a DC one.

 

If you want, you can still buy a little box with a red knob to make the locomotive move.  However, that sounds like the description for an old Hornby train set controller, which are not the best DC controllers on the market.

 

However, to answer your original question, all you need is a piece of track, two wires and a DC controller.  Something like a Gaugemaster Combi - https://railsofsheffield.com/products/7849/gaugemaster-combi-n-ho-oo-combi-single-track-controller-plug-in-transformer-1-amp-?gclid=Cj0KCQjw9_mDBhCGARIsAN3PaFOFg9C7R7xjCbOsLjiTXMKZP7CRENzyu6_eSYiPNTrSy_r6w1VQ9ocaAvHaEALw_wcB might be a suitable starting point.  But, as has been pointed out, a 9v battery across the wheels should also let you see whether it works.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Dungrange

[Royal42]

Hello David,

that is a very comprehensive and understandable description, thank you for responding.  Obviously, the DCC method is not for me just yet; however, now that I know what it is, I can aspire to owning and using such as set up in the future.  I have mentioned this to other forum members, I am building a very basic start up diorama; just to learn the basics and to make my early mistakes with it.  The controller will be needed for my first loco when I get one.

 

I have joined the 2mm Association, and bought a few kits and books in readiness,  and intend to start on a real layout later; possibly after I can get to some shows and learn more.

 

Thanks for the link to the controller, that is more in line with what I was looking for.

 

cheers,
Mike

[AndrueC]

Just a word of warning (hopefully not too much information for you): whilst a DCC 'capable' locomotive can run on DC the reverse is absolutely not true. A DC only locomotive placed on DCC track will buzz alarmingly, won't move and fairly quickly burn its motor out.

 

So if buying unknown locomotives having a DC test set up of some kind is probably safest. As @WIMorrison correctly pointed out you can program a DCC locomotive not to move when powered with DC so it might appear dead but putting a DC loco on a DCC track could damage it.

[adb968008]

9v battery for me too.

 

if it doesn't run on a 9v then I don't trust it, as it means the seller hasn't checked it either... which means other issues could be lurking too.

 

A good seller would check it in advance.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by adb968008

[RobinofLoxley]

Definitely a time-warp feel to this....

[Dungrange]

3 hours ago, Royal42 said:

Obviously, the DCC method is not for me just yet; however, now that I know what it is, I can aspire to owning and using such as set up in the future. 

 

DCC has several advantages over a more traditional DC setup, which explains its rise in popularity over the last couple of decades, and if you want to take it to the extreme, you can even have a computer run your layout for you.  However, there is nothing wrong with the more traditional analogue DC, if that is what you prefer.  All of my club's exhibition layouts are analogue DC and we can and do run multiple trains simultaneously.  Ultimately the choice of control system depends on what you are trying to achieve, what your interests are and how much money you have to spend.

 

If you want a simple read on DC vs DCC, you could always try - https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/rightlines-article/choosing-your-next-controller.html

 

Starting with something simple is a good enough idea.  Good luck.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Dungrange
link added

[WIMorrison]

2 hours ago, AndrueC said:

... but putting a DC loco on a DCC track could damage it.

 

Will make it a bit unhappy but won't kill it unless you leave it there for an awfully long time - and if you are testing a loco then you will know pretty quickly (instantly) that it doesn't have a decoder fitted

[GoingUnderground]

If you are just starting out in model railways for the first time then you should start with something simple. A conventional loco has a 12 volt DC motor, so all you need is a 9 volt battery, the rectangular ones used in smoke alarms to see if the loco runs. Put the loco on your piece of track and touch the terminals on the battery against the rails if you're using N, or TT or OO track. It won't go particularly fast and may lack pulling power. Also the battery will probably run quicker than you may expect.

 

Just one word of caution, when you do get your first loco, if you re intending to buy a continental/european loco, take care that it is a 2 rail loco as 3 rail is very much alive and kicking in mainland Europe where the market leader in many countries is Marklin and they use 3 rail stud contact track with low voltage AC motors. Most continental European manufacturers make their models in 2 rail DC and 3 rail AC versions, and in most cases you can't convert a 3 rail loco to 2 rail.

 

If you get the "bug" you'll want to replace the battery with a mains powered controller. There are plenty on ebay. Can I suggest that you avoid the older models from H&M, Triang, and Marshall or Meccano. These tend to have a higher starting voltage better suited to pre-1980s motors, which results in modern locos starting moving at a faster speed than you might want. a new or relatively recent secondhand one from Hornby or Bachmann should do. Sometimes these are called analogue controllers to distinguish them from DCC digital controllers. 

 

You may well see locos described as DCC Ready. Don't worry, these are not DCC locos. DCC Ready means that it is easy to fit a DCC decoder into the loco to convert it to DCC if and when you want to do so. Nowadays almost all DC locos are sold as DCC Ready.

 

You'll also see locos described as DCC Fitted. These come with a DCC decoder fitted at the factory. Most DCC Fitted locos will work with a DC controller. But DCC Fitted locos cost a little more than DCC Ready.

 

You'll also come across locos described as having DCC Sound. These have a DCC decoder fitted that plays back the sounds the loco would make if it were real. These often work with DC controllers, but you only get the sounds when the loco is powered up and moving when using DC. These cost between £40 and £100 more than the DCC Ready version of the same loco, so you'll probably want to avoid these locos unless you decide that you want to go DCC.

[Royal42]

Thanks.  My intention now, after all the good advice in this thread, is to wait until I can get to a show, or shop that deals in second-hand items.  That way, I can chat to them and get advice on what to buy.  There's no rush as I am still plodding on with my static diorama; it's amazing....  I am progressing and failing at the same time!! 

cheers,
Mike

Edited April 22, 2021 by Royal42