Jump to content
 

Motorising the Kitmaster Blue Pullman


Recommended Posts

I've recently unearthed my Kitmaster Blue Pullman set acquired off a certain internet market about 10 years ago. It has an original Kitmster motor bogie which is physically broken (Muzak pest), so I'm wondering what modern motor bogie or chassis might fit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The kitmaser bogie is a bit like a down market version of the old Triang but i think the Triang is physically bulkier, albeit much more reliabe and powerful.   Both suffer from the high level pivot point which makes the body rock and the triang have a variety of awful wheels.  You can change them, but by the time  Markits have had their cut and you have sourced a 5 pole armature (K's Mk 1) it aint a cheap option.  DMU/EMU is prbably best and I tgink Triang used it for their Blue Pullman.  If I wanted a blue Pullman I would  consider using a modern shaft drive bogie, Lima xclas 20 etc  with traction tyres etc at the trailing end of the power car powered by a motor inthe engine compartment and a universal jointed driveshaft.  Pickup could be leading bogie and with a modern tender wiring connector to the next coach  12 wheel pick up should be possible. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some interesting thoughts there. I've got a couple of Mainline Warship chassis lying around but the bogie pivots have broken. I also have a Lima class 20 going spare. It doesn't run particularly well for some reason hence it's on the disposal list.

 

I wasn't thinking of using a Triang bogie as the wheelbase is wrong and it's a pain trying to file the detail off, if not impossible. I've got a few Lima and Hornby motor bogies lying around, but again none run too well. I've just tried 3 Hornby motor bogies to get my HST power car running.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone recall the 6-car Kitmaster Pullman in grey/blue livery and modified with MU equipment which appeared in an early BRM and later in RM and wonder who could have defaced such a rare model in such a manner? Guilty M'Lud, but here are the circumstances. Back in the 1970s I knew a fellow modern image modeller who was rather good at finding things like this - he built the six vehicles, with the two power cars fitted with Tri-ang DMU motor bogies, and it came my way with a request to make and fit the MU connections (filed sprue and plastic rod) and paint it into the later livery - so I was only following the owner's instructions! Later on ownership passed to me but having nowhere to run it the set spent many years in storage. By 1992 I needed a new airbrush compressor and raised the funds by selling the set to Geoff Endacott for use on the Bentley MRG's 'Highbridge Road' layout. Before handing it over I installed a Lima Class 87 motor bogie in one power car, since it was only going to be driven in one direction - IIRC as it was a long time ago, I cut the motor bogie bearing frame from the Class 87 underframe moulding, and heavily filed it down to fit into the power car. I replaced all of the plastic coach wheels with turned brass items running in Peco bearing cups and soldered up some inter-vehicle hook & bar couplings for more reliable running. AFAIK the BMRG still have it - unfortunately, as many will know, I am no longer able to check with Geoff himself.

 

A side-story with this set involves a table lamp which became detached while the unit was in storage. The gangway connections on these models were open so I recovered it, but how to reattach it halfway down a vehicle which had been solidly glued together?  The unlikely solution - take a length of thick copper earth wire, cut a slot into one end, bend this 90 degrees, shape the 'prongs' into a fork which the lamp just fits into, apply glue to the end of the lamp, insert into the gangway, watch through the windows while manoeuvring it down the coach (trying not to glue it to anything else inside, including the windows :wacko:!),  plant lamp into hole in table, wait briefly, gently twist the fork off the lamp and withdraw. All these years later I still can't believe I got away with it!

  • Like 6
  • Round of applause 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

I've recently unearthed my Kitmaster Blue Pullman set acquired off a certain internet market about 10 years ago. It has an original Kitmster motor bogie which is physically broken (Muzak pest), so I'm wondering what modern motor bogie or chassis might fit.

 

Mine runs on a pair of Black Beetles - one in each power car; see

 

I gather that these are no longer produced, but Ebay may be able to assist; or High Level may have something suitable when they reopen.

 

John Isherwood.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I discovered the engine that came in the joblot of bits with my Blue Pullman coach, was not the expected Triang but an actual bona fide Kitmaster that actually works if not a little wobbly as it has very light flanges, this Pullman set has driven me crazy trying to find a non "pull me pants down" priced motor bogie for it as the huge lozenge atop the Kitmaster and its whole relation to the Triang frame is a bit of a no no well unless I want to develop an extra long coupling and wondering why one coach is doing a semi power wheelie down the line lol.

 

So do I punt it on ebay for someone else to have a word with it, it does run but desperately seeking a service and that lozenge atop it is a bloody big weight.

 

I've come back into model rail hitting the ground running after a break of 40 something years and its all very consuming, I wanted to rebuild a full six car Pullman to repair the aching hole in my soul after the great Pullman disaster of Xmas 1974 where my kid brother on Xmas day evening, decided to do a Zebedee on the brand new coaches of my full and holy set turning them into a pile of shardy plastics and to rub salt in the wound I got rollocked for letting him do it so Boxing day was spent admiring my oval of track and transformer, the pretty box and a carrier bag full of broken dreams...   I did get my own back giving him a pair of wicked shiners amongst things and destroyed virtually every toy he loved and managed with a stick to plant in his brand new Action Man armoured car something next doors Lurcher had left on the lawn but it wasn't the same :(

 

I reflected on this today via my youtube channel detailing the horror of the Pullman disaster 1974 and I missed completely Xmas 1975 as I was coming to the end of a year long coma in hospital to a rare meningitis I succumbed to NYE '74 which was prob preferable to thinking about that sad bag of broken trains... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOe5p9SjfmI)

 

  • Friendly/supportive 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Acquired a Triang parlour car that was missing glazing one side and was mounted on a dummy power car chassis! Now what? Cut the remaining glazing in half for the seat bit and scratch a couple of kitchen car side panels and glue into the gap. Dummy fans/vents on a resprayed roof and another CHEAPO save!  :locomotive:

20210910_173801.jpg

Edited by 33C
added detail
  • Craftsmanship/clever 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Power bogies are quite straightforward to make - each of these is comprised of 3 bits of brass, not including the strap that holds down the motor. Romford 'small' 40:1 gears. The length of motor shaft would allow the wheelbase to be adjusted.

 

 

IMG-20210221-WA0000.jpg.5f270711b4293ffbd490527bf5d26c25.jpg

 

Edited by Barclay
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Barclay said:

Power bogies are quite straightforward to make - each of these is comprised of 3 bits of brass, not including the strap that holds down the motor. Romford 'small' 40:1 gears. The length of motor shaft would allow the wheelbase to be adjusted.

 

IMG-20210221-WA0000.jpg.3f1eaa8816a7378ee0261b456d547f2d.jpg

 

 

Looks like something one of the brass etching people could produce as an affordable range of kits at different wheelbases.

Needs something to attach to the body from which the bogie pivots, and there is also the question of whether one would want to attach couplings to the bogie 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Looks like something one of the brass etching people could produce as an affordable range of kits at different wheelbases.

Needs something to attach to the body from which the bogie pivots, and there is also the question of whether one would want to attach couplings to the bogie 

 

A cross-member to act as a bolster is surely not beyond any modeller requiring a motor bogie to add to a kit?

 

The cosmetic bogie sideframes may well come with headstocks, to which could be added a NEM socket - obtainable from Peco / Parkside.

 

If not, Evergreen strip will suffice.

 

CJI.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • RMweb Premium
On 22/04/2021 at 20:47, cctransuk said:

 

Mine runs on a pair of Black Beetles - one in each power car; see

 

I gather that these are no longer produced, but Ebay may be able to assist; or High Level may have something suitable when they reopen.

 

John Isherwood.

Yes, whoever made them closed a few years ago*. Mashima had also closed so getting motors would have been a problem for them as well.

Those available since them are stocks retailers already had.

Tenshodo do something similar:

http://motorbogies.com/index.php?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=6

 

*edit maybe not (?) but most sold out.

http://motorbogies.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_24_25

 

 

 

Edited by melmerby
Link to post
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Yes, whoever made them closed a few years ago*. Mashima had also closed so getting motors would have been a problem for them as well.

Those available since them are stocks retailers already had.

Tenshodo do something similar:

http://motorbogies.com/index.php?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=6

 

*edit maybe not (?) but most sold out.

http://motorbogies.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_24_25

 

 

 

 

I now understand that Black Beetles are still available from the manufacturer in Australia; they bought up considerable stocks of Mashima motors before that company closed.

 

A fellow member has posted here that he obtained a pair very recently for his Blue Pullman build.

 

The performance of Tenshedo motor bogies is far inferior to that of Black Beetles.

 

John Isherwood.

Edited by cctransuk
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
16 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I now understand that Black Beetles are still available from the manufacturer in Australia; they bought up considerable stocks of Mashima motors before that company closed.

 

A fellow member has posted here that he obtained a pair very recently for his Blue Pullman build.

 

The performance of Tenshedo motor bogies is far inferior to that of Black Beetles.

 

John Isherwood.

Not according to the manufacturer, Hollywood Foundry. (link)

They closed in 2019 with very limited stocks of parts (no complete bogies) to sell off.

 

Most of the places that sold them say no more will be available once sold out.

Branchlines in the UK did have some stocks but I'm not sure what is still available, if any.

 

It has been discussed on RMWeb before, the conclusion being apparently no alternative sources of a comparable unit.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Not according to the manufacturer, Hollywood Foundry. (link)

They closed in 2019 with very limited stocks of parts (no complete bogies) to sell off.

 

Most of the places that sold them say no more will be available once sold out.

Branchlines in the UK did have some stocks but I'm not sure what is still available, if any.

 

It has been discussed on RMWeb before, the conclusion being apparently no alternative sources of a comparable unit.

 

 

 

Perhaps you should read upthread a few posts - roythebus seems to have been succesful a couple of weeks ago.

 

..... or am I missing something?

 

John Isherwood.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Well, it was time to pick up the Blue Pullman project again. There's 3 motor cars, one is half complete, one is a bit beyond redemption, but will provide a source of bits for the other 2.

 

It's take 3 evenings of tinkering about, but I finally got the part-built coach motorised and running. there's a black Beetle bogie in the leading end, and the trailing bogie is fitted with pickups. This coach has had the window surrounds painted (badly) but the paint may come off with some DOT4 brake fluid! I may well take this to the club tonight to give it a run on the test track. It might generate a bit of interest.

 

I got the Black Beetle motors from Australia. the gent there who supplies them said he won't supply to UK wholesalers due to the B word and the fact that he has invested a considerable amount in buying up the stock of whatever the motors were and would rather make all the profit himself. the motors only took a couple of weeks to get to the UK with nothing extra to pay.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...