New (but old?) Hornby Class 56 - Decoder problem

[Damo666]

I bought a new class 56 last year from a shop who, I believe, found some old stock hiding on the shelves. It’s the Hornby R2648X EWS 56059 with decoder fitted.

 

I’ve only now got around to opening the box and putting it on my rolling-road test track. Was a bit slow going in one direction and wouldn’t move in the opposite direction. The rotating fans on the top wouldn’t rotate.

 

Background, but maybe not very relevant:

I lubricated the axels with a little oil where recommended on the Hornby manual, removed the body, lubricated the two vertical fan axels (good idea) and the horizontal shaft on the opposite side to the rubber band (may not have been ideal).

 

However, loco moves in both directions fine now, slight squeaking coming from somewhere. The fans rotated at first, but I think the oil on the shaft means something is slipping, but I’m not too concerned about this.

 

The issue / reason for posting:

I tried to re-programme the decoder on my NCE PowerCab. Manufacturer reported as 255, which I think means that the decoder cannot be read. Is this correct?

The decoder version is 012, so something seems to be reporting back.

I cannot reprogrammed the decoder loco address, stays at 3

 

Is it definite that the decoder is broken, even though it takes input from my NCE and responds to lights, speed and direction?

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Damo666
Clarity & Formatting

[mikeg]

Damo666, I don’t think the decoder is damaged, you need to do a reset, check the reset code it’s usually CV8 = 8 but can be CV8 = 2 or 30 depending on the make. I would try to do it on the main ( not sure what it is on the NCE) as that works better than the program track. When I have this problem I try to reprogram the address using CV1 = 3 if that doesn’t work use the reset CV8=?(8or30). Hope this helps.

 

regards mike 

[Damo666]

Thanks @mikeg, but I’m still stuck. Perhaps I’m not doing this correctly.

 

Here’s my steps (NCE PowerCab):

Select Program on Main.

Next screen says

  OPS PROGRAMMING

  PROG LOCO 003

I hit enter and the next screen shows

  LOC: 003

  1-ADD 2=CV 3=CFG

I select 2

  PROG CV

  PROG CV NUM:

I enter 8

Then ENTER VALUE:

8

Escape out, hopeing that this had reset the chip.

(I also tried 2 and 30.)

 

Next step was to set a new loco number, so back to Program on Main.

  OPS PROGRAMMING

  PROG LOCO 003

I hit enter and the next screen shows

  LOC: 003

  1-ADD 2=CV 3=CFG

I select 1

  SET ADDR [time]

  1=LONG 2=SHORT

Select 1

Change the number to 5609 and enter

Although #5609 comes on the home display, the loco won’t respond. Select loco 3 and it does.

 

 

When I tried this on Program on TRK, these are the steps, which differ from the NCE manual

  PROG TRK

  1=STD 2=CV 3=REG

I enter 1

Wheels move a little on the loco and then

  MAIN OFF

  MANUFACTURER 255

I press enter

Wheels move again a little before stopping

  PAG MODE

  DECODER VER: 012

I press ENTER *

  PAG MODE

  SHORT ADDR: 003

If I try to change this, I get

  SETUP ADDRESS

  CAN NOT READ CV

 

* It’s this that’s different to the manual. I should be seeing

ACTIVE ADR:SHORT

SETUP ADR 1=YES

not PAG MODE.

 

What is PAG MODE, and is this a clue?

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Damo666

[Nigelcliffe]

Page mode is one of the three methods for reading/writing to decoders in "programming track" mode.  The others being "direct" and "register".    Page is fairly old, and you may find the decoder prefers "direct" instead (some decoders only talk one mode).  

 

If the decoder is one of the crap-old-types which don't support read-back, you're likely to have regular problems changing settings.   Its all guesswork as to what is set within the decoder.   

 

 

Quote

 

When I tried this on Program on TRK, these are the steps, which differ from the NCE manual

  PROG TRK

  1=STD 2=CV 3=REG

I enter 1

 

 

I suggest going down option 2 here, not 1, and get to CV8 for the reset you appear to be after.     

Route 1 takes you into the Powercab's "helpful" menus, which are helpful until they fail to work when they become very unhelpful.  

 

Option 3 may be relevant to change the programming mode.   I'd have to read the PowerCab manual to find out, so suggest you read it.  

 

 

- Nigel

[Damo666]

36 minutes ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

Quote

When I tried this on Program on TRK, these are the steps, which differ from the NCE manual

  PROG TRK

  1=STD 2=CV 3=REG

I enter 1

 

I suggest going down option 2 here, not 1, and get to CV8 for the reset you appear to be after.     

Route 1 takes you into the Powercab's "helpful" menus, which are helpful until they fail to work when they become very unhelpful.  

 

Option 3 may be relevant to change the programming mode.   I'd have to read the PowerCab manual to find out, so suggest you read it.  

 

- Nigel

 

Nigel, thank you for this.

 

I did as you suggested, is:

Program on TRK

  PROG TRK

  1=STD 2=CV 3=REG

Select 2

  PROG CV

  PROG CV NUM:

I input 8

 

  PROG CV

  ---WAIT---

 

then

  PROG CV

  CAN NOT READ CV

 

I then looked at option 3 (Register). Reading the NCE manual I don't see anything obvious. the 5 options in the manual are: Short Address, Start Voltage, Acceleration, Deceleration and Configuration byte.

 

[Nigelcliffe]

OK, so option 3 is "register mode" which has only a few options.   The stuff to change programming modes is in higher options (4 and 5 - read the PowerCab manual).  

 

Suggest where you get stuck with "can not read CV" you try putting in a value and pressing enter to see if it will write the reset.    

 

Decoders which don't support read-back are a problem, often simpler to replace decoder with something half-decent.  

 

 

- Nigel

 

[RAF96]

X in the R-number denotes the model is factory fitted with likely the old and unreliable R8215 Hornby decoder. Some of these do not support read back of CVs. You should cut to the chase and replace it with something better. They often respond to programming in REG mode better than DIRECT mode and it can take a few pokes before a reset will stick.

[Damo666]

1 hour ago, RAF96 said:

X in the R-number denotes the model is factory fitted with likely the old and unreliable R8215 Hornby decoder. Some of these do not support read back of CVs. You should cut to the chase and replace it with something better. They often respond to programming in REG mode better than DIRECT mode and it can take a few pokes before a reset will stick.

As you and @Nigelcliffe have suggested, I think this is good advice.

 

Whilst I bought the loco new late last year, my understanding is that this was recently discovered old stock. As such, if the Hornby decoders from that era is known to be problematic, then there is no good reason to fight an uphill battle.

 

At least I am content knowing that it is not me doing something wrong.

 

Thanks.

D