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ON TRACK MACHINE FIRE - NEAR DUNTON GREEN


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It’s probably made harder by virtue of the fact the machine is articulated, and not separate vehicles with a pair of bogies each.

 

From the photos of the fire it would appear the Tamping bank end was at the rear as the machine transitted back to Bridges, and it was this end that caught fire.

 

In happier times at ECR...

 

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Edited by STONECOLDSMILE1882
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Looks to be a quite an intense fire (to my "non-expert" eyes at least). As well as the engine fuel, quite a lot of hydraulic fluid onboard as well I imagine. Also, I assume that hydraulic fluid is as flammable as diesel/petrol once ignited, although I, thankfully, have no personal experience of this. Hope crew okay. As Trainshed Terry says, probably write off. 

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Looks like the "business end" of the tamper is relatively unscathed, so if not wholley economically repairable, a lot of salvageable bits I imagine. 

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23 minutes ago, STONECOLDSMILE1882 said:

Yeah I am now persuaded that it is going to need more than a coat of paint to fix it.
That’s the tower end of the machine by the looks of it. 
 

21A74F7A-FA05-44F6-ABAD-3C02D5F73F66.jpeg.01df5db61e531685f560f7d30c275e22.jpeg

 

 The heat damage to the body work is clear to see, but it is the damage internally that could be worse that it looks. I thourght that there was fire suppression equipment fitted to locomotives and on track machine. 

 

Terry.

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27 minutes ago, Trainshed Terry said:

 

 The heat damage to the body work is clear to see, but it is the damage internally that could be worse that it looks. I thourght that there was fire suppression equipment fitted to locomotives and on track machine. 

 

Terry.


The heat generated by a fire fuelled by hydraulic fluid is intense. These type of machines tend to be built around  big steel beams as the frames, which will probably be affected by this type of fire. I can’t believe for a minute that this tamper won’t end up being a write off. Such a shame.
I have actually been on this one, DR 75410, a couple of years back. 

 

Sounds like no one was injured, as mentioned earlier it was the rear ( in the direction of travel) of the machine that caught fire so the crew were likely all in the front vehicle at the time. 
 

At least the BBC managed to get the terminology correct today (well done to the reporter.....maybe a secret Crank). They managed to refrain from calling the Tamper... freight carriages, or engineering carriages or worse still ‘train engineering carriages’.......funny that generally when the media report on Aviation incidents or Road Traffic ‘Accidents’ they don’t seem to suffer from the same inability to use the correct terms.
 


 


 

 

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7 hours ago, STONECOLDSMILE1882 said:

...... At least the BBC managed to get the terminology correct today (well done to the reporter.....maybe a secret Crank). They managed to refrain from calling the Tamper... freight carriages, or engineering carriages or worse still ‘train engineering carriages’.......

.... or the usual one - "locomotive".

 

 

Incidentally - Lower Sydenham is a very odd place for any working to start from : no sidings, no crossovers, no nuffin' ! 

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1 hour ago, STONECOLDSMILE1882 said:

Totally. 
 

From Railrecord’s excellent site, early this morning.

 

 

 

Unfortunately it doesnt show the actual reporting number (6J58) or the vehicle number (DR74510) which the Railcam site does and is where I got my info that I posted 11 hours ago.;)

It also is now showing that 66752 towed it away.

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On 23/04/2021 at 10:11, iands said:

Looks to be a quite an intense fire (to my "non-expert" eyes at least). As well as the engine fuel, quite a lot of hydraulic fluid onboard as well I imagine. Also, I assume that hydraulic fluid is as flammable as diesel/petrol once ignited, although I, thankfully, have no personal experience of this. Hope crew okay. As Trainshed Terry says, probably write off. 

I will check and let you know re hydraulic fluid flammabity

My job is warranty manager for what will soon be the global no 1 or 2  hydraulics manufacturer 

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So checking my notes

Politicians answer it depends on what fluid is used

 

Phosphate ester based hydraulic fluids are used in aerospace applications...because they are non flammable e.g. skydrol 

But downside is they are rather nasty so are not used elsewhere

 

Water based hydraulic fluids are the next step down

 

Mineral oil hydraulic fluids are the most flammable 

 

So unless we know what the system used difficult to give a definitive answer 

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I would guess mineral oil, as it isn't in a normally hazardous or critical environment.

 

I've worked one a zinc diecasting machine that used pure Glycol, as the injection cylinder sits above the zinc melting pot which is 550 degrees C.

 

NCB used an emulsion called Aquiscent, or something like that. Different water percentages were used. There used to be an excellent training facility based near Worksop run by ex-miners that became part of East Midlands Tech. That's where I learnt hydraulics, and later used their oil analysis service.

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 I don't know about the current machines but on the old Plasser 7 series machines virtually everything but the kettle was hydraulically powered. So hydraulic lines all over the place, any damage to one of those pipes and the fluid comes out like a high pressure aerosol. Add a flame and you basically have a rail mounted blowlamp.

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2 hours ago, Foulounoux said:

 

Water based hydraulic fluids are the next step down

 

Mineral oil hydraulic fluids are the most flammable 

 

 

I seem to remember seeing that the hydraulic fluid in some cars changed from mineral oil to water(?) based some years ago as there were concerns folk would end up mixing them accidentally and ending up with no brakes.

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On 24/04/2021 at 20:27, Foulounoux said:

I will check and let you know re hydraulic fluid flammabity

My job is warranty manager for what will soon be the global no 1 or 2  hydraulics manufacturer 

The hydraulic fluid in a Matissa B41 is Panolin bio-degradable

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On 23/04/2021 at 11:03, iands said:

Looks like the "business end" of the tamper is relatively unscathed, so if not wholley economically repairable, a lot of salvageable bits I imagine. 

The trailer end is unscathed, the traiier is only a crew rest room,  a workshop and a driving cab, but the business end is severely damaged. The business end is 99% of the unit , and has the diesel tanks, hydraulic oil tanks, diesel engine, hydraulic pumps, the computer systems and all the tamping machinery / tamping cab  and electronics,  that machine is severely damaged, and probably contaminated by dangerous chemicals created by the fire such as hydrofluoric acid. i think this unit is a write-off with very little that can be salvaged.

Edited by Pandora
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15 hours ago, Pandora said:

The hydraulic fluid in a Matissa B41 is Panolin bio-degradable

 

One of the many roles of NR Controls is arranging the management of pollution incidents, ie sending staff to site, arranging specialist clean-up if required, and advising the relevant environmental authority (in our case in Scotland, SEPA) and if necessary facilitating their attendance. I have to say that by far the majority of such incidents involved hydraulic fluid from OTMs..... We always made sure to advise them when the fluid was bio-degradable, although I do recall one of their officials not being particularly impressed by that !

 

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