RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2021 Fascinating and interesting stuff. There's a book in you Brian! Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Fascinating and interesting stuff. There's a book in you Brian! Mike. Thank you Mike. . Sadly, the domestic goddess doesn't grant me enough time to write a book. . . . . . . yet ! . Brian R 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Richard_A Posted April 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2021 Fascinating thread. Thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 Part of a typical South Wales diagram, 9C71 was an Aberdare based duty, for a Cardiff Canton allocated Class 37. . The photo shows 6987 taking a well earned weekend rest at Aberdare in April, 1972. . Typically, the loco, in South Wales workaday condition, has its brake van attached. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyburn Kid Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 Hi Brian Thanks again. My understanding was that the Whitland- Kensington milk trains were often rostered for Cl.52 haulage. Is that true? Were there any further loco hauled services west of Swansea, or was everything else DMU? The Waterston-Albion tankers have often been featured in railway mags, Most of the time they were double headed CL.37s that went round the loop outside Shrewsbury station. I remember a couple of times going to Shrewsbury shed on Sunday morning and seeing them there, presumably their crews had reached their time limit, and couldn't get back on the same day. There were however periods when these trains worked through Worcester, and a couple of photos I've seen, have both been Cl.47 hauled. Are you aware of when the Worcester route was used? Cheers TONY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted April 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2021 To my knowledge Tony the Worcester route was only used 69-70. It required a run round at Wednesfield and hence the train ran with an AB brake van at either end. This manoeuvre allowed a south facing arrival at Albion and hence an easy reverse shunt in to the sidings. Return was via Bescot. It was easier to run via Shrewsbury as it avoided this manoeuvre and the 37s were replaced by a 47 when they were required for the M5 fly ash trains to Bridgwater. Hope that helps! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Leyburn Kid said: Hi Brian Thanks again. My understanding was that the Whitland- Kensington milk trains were often rostered for Cl.52 haulage. Is that true? Were there any further loco hauled services west of Swansea, or was everything else DMU? The Waterston-Albion tankers have often been featured in railway mags, Most of the time they were double headed CL.37s that went round the loop outside Shrewsbury station. I remember a couple of times going to Shrewsbury shed on Sunday morning and seeing them there, presumably their crews had reached their time limit, and couldn't get back on the same day. There were however periods when these trains worked through Worcester, and a couple of photos I've seen, have both been Cl.47 hauled. Are you aware of when the Worcester route was used? Cheers TONY Hello again, Sunday, 2nd. January, 1972. All Cl.35 ‘Hymek’ duties in West Wales become Cl.37 duties from this date, except; 08:35 Margam – Fishguard Harbour freight and return, on Saturdays Only. . Cl.37 Diagrams are as follows; (i) 7C38 08:35 Margam-Fishguard Harbour and 7C04 14:15 return SX. (ii) 4C00 03:15 Swansea-Milford Haven parcels, shunt Haverfordwest, then 7B82 18:15 freight to Margam. (iii) 1C26 MX, 1C23 MO 04:12 Swansea-Carmarthen passenger, then Pembroke Dock branch freight, 16:38 Milford Haven freight, then 8C15 18:50 Milford Haven-Margam freight. (iv) 8C01 01:30 Margam-Carmarthen freight, 1C23 (MO), 1C26 (MX) 05:12 Milford Haven passenger and 2C33 07:40 return to Carmarthen, then 11:00 freight and milk to Newcastle Emlyn & Pont Llanio and return, then 1A63 20:46 Carmarthen-Swansea passenger (19:15 Milford-Padd). (v) 8O81 03:10 Margam-Haverfordwest freight, thence L/E to Fishguard to work Trecwn trip, then assisting 7C04 14:15 Fishguard-Margam freight as far as Carmarthen. 2C86 17:20 Carmarthen-Milford Haven passenger and 1A63 return, 2C94 20:02 Milford Haven passenger and 1A67 21:40 return to Swansea (vi) 06:00 Margam-Milford Haven freight, and 6A15 16:15 Milford Haven-Cardiff parcels (Milford – Padd). (ii), (iii), (iv), (v) and (vi) require boiler fitted locos, seeing 6837, 6896, 6913, 6922, 6925, 6948 added to Landore’s allocation to free up boiler fitted locos. Llanelli – Margam freights taken over by Cl.37s from the same date. . Information regarding oil workings to/from South wales will follow soon. . Brian R Edited April 27, 2021 by br2975 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Leyburn Kid said: The Waterston-Albion tankers have often been featured in railway mags, Most of the time they were double headed CL.37s that went round the loop outside Shrewsbury station. I remember a couple of times going to Shrewsbury shed on Sunday morning and seeing them there, presumably their crews had reached their time limit, and couldn't get back on the same day. There were however periods when these trains worked through Worcester, and a couple of photos I've seen, have both been Cl.47 hauled. Are you aware of when the Worcester route was used? As promised in my earlier post, an overview of oil trains to/from South & West wales, 1971/1972 . UP 6M33 1715 Hebrandston – Shrewsbury & 6V18 0240 MX Shrewsbury – Hebrandston both via the North & West. * both shown as discontinued from 03/05/1971 6M34 2325 MX Tidal Sidings – Soho Pool amended to ‘Q’ from 03/05/1971 6M37 2100 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP 6M38 0600 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP 6M39 1840 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP * shown as ‘suspended’ – delete entries from 03/05/1971 Outward working of 6V83 6M40 0335 MX Llandarcy – Rowley Regis, Witton, Wednesbury or Spring Vale. & 6V79 1444 Witton, 1454 Spring Vale, 1506 Wednesbury or 1539 Rowley Regis – Llandarcy BP 6M41 1140 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP 6M49 0955 WO Waterston – Albion Gulf ‘Special’ via North & West 6M50 1510 Waterston – Albion Gulf via North & West 6M51 0500 Waterston – Kingsbury & 0052 WO Kingsbury – Waterston Gulf 6M52 2025 MX Waterston – Albion Gulf 6M53 0048 MX Waterston – Albion Gulf DOWN 6V80 0728 MX Soho Pool – Cardiff Marshalling Sidings, amended to ‘Q’ from 03/05/1971 6V38 1350 Rowley Regis – Llandarcy BP 6V64 0230 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf * amended to 02:10 MX from 04/05/1971 6V70 1215 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf 6V83 0230 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP * shown as ‘suspended’ – delete entries from 04/05/1971 Return working of 6M39 6V85 1925 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP 6V88 0715 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf via North & West 6V90 0445 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP 6V92 2112 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf via the North & West . In addition, there was; 6V71 2140 WO Fawley – Penarth Curve North (ThO) & 6O41 Penarth Curve North – Fawley. For many years I thought this was diesel fuel for the adjacent Canton Depot, but it appears it may have been for the Esso tank farm on the Ferry Road Branch. . I have no idea what worked it as it arrived and left in the wee small hours but every possibility that it could be (i) Hymek (ii) Warship or (iii) Eastleigh Cl.33 as they worked summer dated trains to Cardiff from Pompey. There had been a Fawley – Cardiff Tidal working in the late 1960s, Cl.33 hauled and of which we spotters were blissfully unaware as it never reached Cardiff General ! NOTE Amndments shown * are taken from Supplement No.1 to the WTT Section 7 commencing 3rd May 1971. . Brian R Edited April 27, 2021 by br2975 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted April 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2021 These two are ready for the Waterston - Albions to run via Worcester.... 3 pairs sound fitted EE3s available for power , legomanbiffo sound files with drivelock installed for extra thrash. We can only accommodate a train of 10 bogie tank cars on the new layout .... the real ones loaded to 15 and with a Pair of EE3s up front you could hear the northbound departures from Shrub Hill all over Worcester.... 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyburn Kid Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Phil Bullock said: To my knowledge Tony the Worcester route was only used 69-70. It required a run round at Wednesfield and hence the train ran with an AB brake van at either end. This manoeuvre allowed a south facing arrival at Albion and hence an easy reverse shunt in to the sidings. Return was via Bescot. It was easier to run via Shrewsbury as it avoided this manoeuvre and the 37s were replaced by a 47 when they were required for the M5 fly ash trains to Bridgwater. Hope that helps! Hi Phil, thanks for your reply. After seeing your reply, I've managed to locate one of the Cl.47s on the Waterston tanks. It's a picture of an incredibly dirty 1912 running through Shrub Hill on 31st July 1970. That fits in nicely with your post about 69-70. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted April 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2021 11 minutes ago, Leyburn Kid said: Hi Phil, thanks for your reply. After seeing your reply, I've managed to locate one of the Cl.47s on the Waterston tanks. It's a picture of an incredibly dirty 1912 running through Shrub Hill on 31st July 1970. That fits in nicely with your post about 69-70. Many thanks Tony. Would be interested in a look at that photo ... is it somewhere accessible please? Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyburn Kid Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 19 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said: Many thanks Tony. Would be interested in a look at that photo ... is it somewhere accessible please? Cheers It's from a book called Diesels Nationwide by Keith Montague (Oxford Publishing Co 1977) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted April 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, Leyburn Kid said: It's from a book called Diesels Nationwide by Keith Montague (Oxford Publishing Co 1977) Cheers will look out for that.... Worcester not represented that much in print Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyburn Kid Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 3 hours ago, br2975 said: As promised in my earlier post, an overview of oil trains to/from South & West wales, 1971/1972 . UP 6M33 1715 Hebrandston – Shrewsbury & 6V18 0240 MX Shrewsbury – Hebrandston both via the North & West. * both shown as discontinued from 03/05/1971 6M34 2325 MX Tidal Sidings – Soho Pool amended to ‘Q’ from 03/05/1971 6M37 2100 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP 6M38 0600 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP 6M39 1840 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP * shown as ‘suspended’ – delete entries from 03/05/1971 Outward working of 6V83 6M40 0335 MX Llandarcy – Rowley Regis, Witton, Wednesbury or Spring Vale. & 6V79 1444 Witton, 1454 Spring Vale, 1506 Wednesbury or 1539 Rowley Regis – Llandarcy BP 6M41 1140 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP 6M49 0955 WO Waterston – Albion Gulf ‘Special’ via North & West 6M50 1510 Waterston – Albion Gulf via North & West 6M51 0500 Waterston – Kingsbury & 0052 WO Kingsbury – Waterston Gulf 6M52 2025 MX Waterston – Albion Gulf 6M53 0048 MX Waterston – Albion Gulf DOWN 6V80 0728 MX Soho Pool – Cardiff Marshalling Sidings, amended to ‘Q’ from 03/05/1971 6V38 1350 Rowley Regis – Llandarcy BP 6V64 0230 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf * amended to 02:10 MX from 04/05/1971 6V70 1215 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf 6V83 0230 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP * shown as ‘suspended’ – delete entries from 04/05/1971 Return working of 6M39 6V85 1925 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP 6V88 0715 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf via North & West 6V90 0445 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP 6V92 2112 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf via the North & West . In addition, there was; 6V71 2140 WO Fawley – Penarth Curve North (ThO) & 6O41 Penarth Curve North – Fawley. For many years I thought this was diesel fuel for the adjacent Canton Depot, but it appears it may have been for the Esso tank farm on the Ferry Road Branch. . I have no idea what worked it as it arrived and left in the wee small hours but every possibility that it could be (i) Hymek (ii) Warship or (iii) Eastleigh Cl.33 as they worked summer dated trains to Cardiff from Pompey. There had been a Fawley – Cardiff Tidal working in the late 1960s, Cl.33 hauled and of which we spotters were blissfully unaware as it never reached Cardiff General ! NOTE Amndments shown * are taken from Supplement No.1 to the WTT Section 7 commencing 3rd May 1971. . Brian R Many thanks for the extra Hymek and Oil tanker workings, it's a fascinating level of detail. Apologies my thread is not loading properly at times, I'm new to RmWeb, so not certain if this is normal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyburn Kid Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 Coming back to the original topic, the book I've just quoted to Phil (Diesels Nationwide) has two pictures of 6906, which was a loco that Brian and I mentioned at the start of the thread in connection with GSYP. One picture has 46 051 in the foreground on a mixed freight. In the distance is 37 206 (6906) leaving Newport tunnel, it appears to have a yellow panel, but this is just central, and doesn't cover the headlights. The photo is dated 13th April 1976. There is another shot of 6906 in the book. Under the headline "Not a pretty sight", there is a picture of extensive accident damage to the rear cab, which happened at Margam, sadly killing the guard. The nose is covered by a tarpaulin, and dated 30th December 1973. In neither photo is it clear whether it's blue or green. It does raise some interesting questions. Has 6906 survived into 1976 in GYP, albeit with a central panel on the rear cab, when the last reported GYP was summer 1970? What state is the other cab in? Did this difference result from the accident in 1973? And if the livery was blue in 1973, why would you apply a yellow panel? And retain that yellow panel until 1976? Or maybe an optical illusion? All very strange! TONY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 28, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2021 6 hours ago, Leyburn Kid said: In the distance is 37 206 (6906) leaving Newport tunnel, it appears to have a yellow panel, but this is just central, and doesn't cover the headlights. The photo is dated 13th April 1976. If you search t'interweb, Rail Online is a good resource, then you'll see that in the 60's and 70's a lot of South Wales EE type 3's had a similar look to them, caused by the fact that the loco's were rarely cleaned but the headcode panel was hand washed with a bucket and brush and by default the yellow panel underneath the box was cleaned by the water running down the nose end, leaving the outer edges dirty. Mike. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: If you search t'interweb, Rail Online is a good resource, then you'll see that in the 60's and 70's a lot of South Wales EE type 3's had a similar look to them, caused by the fact that the loco's were rarely cleaned but the headcode panel was hand washed with a bucket and brush and by default the yellow panel underneath the box was cleaned by the water running down the nose end, leaving the outer edges dirty. Mike ia correct, with regard to the effect of 'cach' on the yellow warning panels of Cl.37s, giving the impression of a small yellow panel below the headcode box.. . Chris Gwilliam posted a photo taken in March, 1973 to a Facebook group, showing (D)6906 in GFYE livery at Talywain, where this effect is apparent. . Brian R 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted April 28, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2021 And a photo on Flickr has her in green FYE in 1971 Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 28, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2021 For completeness my pic of the top end of your pic of Radyr yard. Mike. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyburn Kid Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 Thanks both, so the picture of 6906 is in effect an optical illusion of sorts 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyburn Kid Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 7 hours ago, Phil Bullock said: And a photo on Flickr has her in green FYE in 1971 Phil Thanks Phil, that clears it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyburn Kid Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 18 hours ago, br2975 said: Hello again, Sunday, 2nd. January, 1972. All Cl.35 ‘Hymek’ duties in West Wales become Cl.37 duties from this date, except; 08:35 Margam – Fishguard Harbour freight and return, on Saturdays Only. . Cl.37 Diagrams are as follows; (i) 7C38 08:35 Margam-Fishguard Harbour and 7C04 14:15 return SX. (ii) 4C00 03:15 Swansea-Milford Haven parcels, shunt Haverfordwest, then 7B82 18:15 freight to Margam. (iii) 1C26 MX, 1C23 MO 04:12 Swansea-Carmarthen passenger, then Pembroke Dock branch freight, 16:38 Milford Haven freight, then 8C15 18:50 Milford Haven-Margam freight. (iv) 8C01 01:30 Margam-Carmarthen freight, 1C23 (MO), 1C26 (MX) 05:12 Milford Haven passenger and 2C33 07:40 return to Carmarthen, then 11:00 freight and milk to Newcastle Emlyn & Pont Llanio and return, then 1A63 20:46 Carmarthen-Swansea passenger (19:15 Milford-Padd). (v) 8O81 03:10 Margam-Haverfordwest freight, thence L/E to Fishguard to work Trecwn trip, then assisting 7C04 14:15 Fishguard-Margam freight as far as Carmarthen. 2C86 17:20 Carmarthen-Milford Haven passenger and 1A63 return, 2C94 20:02 Milford Haven passenger and 1A67 21:40 return to Swansea (vi) 06:00 Margam-Milford Haven freight, and 6A15 16:15 Milford Haven-Cardiff parcels (Milford – Padd). (ii), (iii), (iv), (v) and (vi) require boiler fitted locos, seeing 6837, 6896, 6913, 6922, 6925, 6948 added to Landore’s allocation to free up boiler fitted locos. Llanelli – Margam freights taken over by Cl.37s from the same date. . Information regarding oil workings to/from South wales will follow soon. . Brian R Thanks Brian. The detailed diagram info is really helpful, and the intention of my layout is to run it like real railway, with a proper sequence and diagrams for the locos. Also it's giving me a nice overview of the balance of freight operating within South Wales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted April 28, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Leyburn Kid said: Thanks Brian. The detailed diagram info is really helpful, and the intention of my layout is to run it like real railway, with a proper sequence and diagrams for the locos. Also it's giving me a nice overview of the balance of freight operating within South Wales. You sound like a man after my own heart Tony. Operation of Abbotswood is based on the 71/72 wtt with stock and locos as close as we can get it. A lot of our freight was to/from S Wales hence my interest in your post Cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) Nothing shouts "The Valleys" louder than a GFYE "Ingi". . On Saturday 1st May, 1971 those of us who frequented Cardiff General were amazed when 8 (eight) Healey Mills (55C) allocated Cl.37s passed through as follows; 6918+6923+6929, followed by 6917+6939, then bringing up the rear came 6914+6927+6930. . All eight were in the process of being transferred to Canton. As they were all former WR locos that had been transferred around 4 years earlier, to the North East to eliminate the Q6s and J27s, I didn't 'cop' any. . They were all fitted with "EQ" brakes, and were intended for use in the Western Valleys, from Ebbw Junction and Aberbeeg. . That didn't preclude their turning up elsewhere. . The photo shows one of the eight, 6923, at Newport Ebbw Junction depot shortly after their transfer; still displaying its red and white 55C shed stencil and local (Newport area) 9A77 headcode.. . Photographer unknown. . Brian R Edited April 28, 2021 by br2975 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted April 28, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2021 32 minutes ago, br2975 said: Nothing shouts "The Valleys" louder than a GFYE "Ingi". . On Saturday 1st May, 1971 those of us who frequented Cardiff General were amazed when 8 (eight) Healey Mills (55C) allocated Cl.37s passed through as follows; 6918+6923+6929, followed by 6917+6939, then bringing up the rear came 6914+6927+6930. . All eight were in the process of being transferred to Canton. As they were all former WR locos that had been transferred around 4 years earlier, to the North East to eliminate the Q6s and J27s, I didn't 'cop' any. . They were all fitted with "EQ" brakes, and were intended for use in the Western Valleys, from Ebbw Junction and Aberbeeg. . That didn't preclude their turning up elsewhere. . The photo shows one of the eight, 6923, at Newport Ebbw Junction depot shortly after their transfer; still displaying its red and white 55C shed stencil and local (Newport area) 9A77 headcode.. . Photographer unknown. . Brian R Pah ! Trust the ER to remove the cow horn lamp brackets .... eeh up lad , why’s that lamp shining sideways???? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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