British flagship locomotives/trains as in 'equivalents' to the DB TEE Class VT 11.5 or DB Class 103 (or now Intercity Express)?

[AchimK]

Hi everyone

 

I wonder how people feel about British 'flagship' locomotives. Now I know that this is a can of worms and one cannot really compare Britain and Germany in terms of railways that easily. Let's just say, I wonder what people would consider British 'equivalents' to the above mentioned german famous and beloved locos/trains. 

 

Not in terms of power, speed (that might be contentious) or technical details/sophistication but just in terms of general appreciation by enthusiasts or the general public.

 

One I would put on the list is the Brighton Belle and Flying Scotsman. What about newer ones? Class 66 for freight? Intercity 125?

Very interested to read your thoughts. Images would be greatly appreciated!

 

All best, stay safe

Achim

 

PS: Below an image of a DB 103.

 

[Trainshed Terry]

There is only one's that comes to my mind are,1st place HST Class 43 and in second place is the class 52 Western 3rd Brush Type 4 AKA Class 47.

 

Regards Terry.

[D826]

Original Blue Pullman, Brighton Belle maybe ? 

 

The 125s and all other locos basically on squadron service providing seats for second class, and for the locos,  pulling passenger,  parcels, goods, whatever else needed moving around.  Not solely utilised on premium services.  I'd always rate western hydraulics of all varieties higher than other diesels, (a strange genetic disorder and obviously never had to maintain them). * Now being a resident of the Eastern Region, be remiss not to mention Deltics. 

 

Duffs (47s/Brush 4s) were two a penny when I were a lad, except the better variety of western namer ! (The western names alone elevated them above normal duffs - I mean Odin, Thor, George Jackson Churchward, IKB, North Star, Mammoth, Sir Daniel Gooch, etc, what names).

 

For some strange reason 46s always appealed too, especially on the proper north east to south west trains with 11 or 12 bogies on in the 70s.  Probably cos with their 138 ton weight, the rails would start singing on the cant of the curve at Langstone Rock about 5 minutes** before the train hove into view.

 

That was the thing with BR in the 70s, so much variety.  A day at Dawlish could see the occasional 08 (seriously), scuttling from Exeter to Newton Abbot, 25s - I can still hear that Sulzer chatter as they left the loop at the Warren with 4 or 5 on for Paignton), the odd Hymek, (pre 74/5), 31s, 33s, 45s, 46s, 47s, 50s (post 74 and named from 78),  1000s, (until 77), and more DMUs than you could shake a stick at. Post 78 you might see a 37.  Plus the 125s when they came into squadron service.  Its the total collapse of railfreight to Cornwall/Devon that depresses me.  The variety of freight traffic in the 70s was huge.  

 

Best regards 

 

Matt W

* seeing a Western give a  blast on the Desilux Horns and scream out of Kennaway tunnel with a string of Milk Tanks with their distinctive three wheeled staccato tap on the railjoints is a sight I loved, and haven't seen captured in the many films of the rail blue era I watch.

**maybe an exaggeration!

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by D826

[The Pilotman]

Some nice reminiscing from @D826 above. I’ll leave the steam era to other more knowledgeable folk but for diesels my choice would be the Westerns, the Deltics and the InterCity 125.
By the way, I was once taken completely by surprise when the train I was waiting to catch had this on the front:

 

 

Düsseldorf Hauptbahnhof 22/5/14

 

[AchimK]

3 minutes ago, Western Aviator said:

By the way, I was once taken completely by surprise when the train I was waiting to catch had this on the front:

 

 

Düsseldorf Hauptbahnhof 22/5/14

 

 

Beautiful (again). Makes me wonder, whether she's ever been in charge of me on my numerous journeys around Germany as a youngster? Many thanks.

[AchimK]

47 minutes ago, D826 said:

Duffs (47s/Brush 4s) were two a penny when I were a lad, except the better variety of western namer ! (The western names alone elevated them above normal duffs - I mean Odin, Thor, George Jackson Churchward, IKB, North Star, Mammoth, Sir Daniel Gooch, etc, what names).

 

Britain does have the best locomotive names, no contest. Many thanks.

[JeffP]

Did have.

Now the habit of naming stuff to get money or custom is just appalling.

IMHO.

[HillsideDepot]

Not quite what the OP meant, I know, but my mind went back to this 1991 INTERCITY advert

 

 

[Zomboid]

20 minutes ago, JeffP said:

Did have.

Now the habit of naming stuff to get money or custom is just appalling.

IMHO.

Depends if it works really.

 

If the price of getting a flow of traffic onto the railway is to name a locomotive "Rupert's international cement company", then I don't see any reason not to do it.

[caradoc]

And it's not a new thing, BR named an HST Power Car 'Top of the Pops' in 1984 !

 

[billbedford]

17 hours ago, JeffP said:

Did have.

Now the habit of naming stuff to get money or custom is just appalling.

 

Is that worse than naming locos after directors?

[JeffP]

Yes

[Huw Griffiths]

3 hours ago, caradoc said:

And it's not a new thing, BR named an HST Power Car 'Top of the Pops' in 1984 !

 

"Now then ... now then ... now then ... " (Strangled sound.)

 

It could have been worse.

 

They could have called it "Operation Yewtree".

 

"Now how's about that then, boys and girls?"

 

 

On reflection, having adverts fronted by Jimmy Sa-vile might not have been British Rail's finest hour.

 

 

Huw.

[BernardTPM]

I remember in an interview with Sir Peter Parker, broadcast long before Saville's departure, that he didn't really like him, but the advertisers (Saatchi & Saatchi) were convinced he was the right man for the job.

[97406]

On 23/04/2021 at 17:32, Trainshed Terry said:

There is only one's that comes to my mind are,1st place HST Class 43 and in second place is the class 52 Western 3rd Brush Type 4 AKA Class 47.

 

Regards Terry.

Yes I’d put the High Speed Train first, but the 47 second. It’s a handsome, timeless design and long lasting. The Western is a fabulous piece of design, but short lived alas and I never saw one in normal service, unlike the other two for many years.

Edited April 24, 2021 by 97406

[Trainshed Terry]

30 minutes ago, 97406 said:

Yes I’d put the High Speed Train first, but the 47 second. It’s a handsome, timeless design and long lasting. The Western is a fabulous piece of design, but short lived alas and I never saw one in normal service, unlike the other two for many years.

 

I never saw a Western in services either, but do agree with you that Western was a short lived design, as for the 47 it is a handsome design and is long running design and timeless handsome design.

 

How many of the 47's are still in front line service out of the 500+ built.

 

Terry.

[DK123GWR]

I have to agree with the consensus here. If we're discussing iconic passenger trains (in the modern era at least) the HST is undoubtedly the champion - the world speed record holder which revolutionised British passenger transport. Similarly, the Westerns and the Deltics are iconic thanks to being synonymous with the fastest and most prestigious trains in their regions and to their numbers - common enough to be seen but uncommon enough to retain a level of novelty.

 

Outside of the passenger world, I can't believe we haven't mentioned the humble 08. Distinctive, functional, and reminiscent of a steam loco, recognisable to any child as 'Diesel' and omnipresent in their day. An enourmously successful locomotive with almost 200 remaining in service or preservation, surely this has to be recognised for the 'general appreciation by enthusiasts or the general public' which the first post mentioned as a key criterion. One of my earliest railway memories was seeing an FGW 08 out of the window of a train and being so struck by it that I immediately wanted one (if only they did a RailRoad FGW version, I might have stood a chance of getting one).

[Bucoops]

I'm not familiar with the German trains mentioned, but I would say that the LNER's Silver Jubilee and Coronation streamlined trains would be up there with the best, and the LMS' Coronation Scot.

[kevinlms]

On 24/04/2021 at 06:42, Zomboid said:

Depends if it works really.

 

If the price of getting a flow of traffic onto the railway is to name a locomotive "Rupert's international cement company", then I don't see any reason not to do it.

It's highly unlikely that the deal would depend on naming a loco. But good as part of a package. 

[kevinlms]

18 hours ago, caradoc said:

And it's not a new thing, BR named an HST Power Car 'Top of the Pops' in 1984 !

 

Yes, but doubtless that was to do with a long time presenter, who also did ads for Intercity.

But let's not name him!

[kevinlms]

15 hours ago, JeffP said:

Yes

No!

[griffgriff]

How about the Pacer? I’ll get my coat

 

Griff

[Zomboid]

20 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

Is that worse than naming locos after directors?

Or indeed after shipping companies (Merchant Navy) or football clubs?

[Welly]

The Class 47 locomotive was often used to illustrate generic trains in non railway publications - eg the Highway Code book.

[billbedford]

5 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Or indeed after shipping companies (Merchant Navy) or football clubs?

 

Well at least the SR didn't name one of their locos Everard. A company that has outlasted most of the 'Famous Names' they did choose.