Jump to content
 

Rebuilding a Hornby class 86 into 86214 "Sans Pareil" So many things to consider...


Recommended Posts

Hello all, 

This is my first proper post. My goal is to take Hornby's 86243 "The Boys Brigade" and convert it into 86214 "Sans Pareil" as it was at the Rocket 150 event in May 1980.
Glasgow_Central_Class_86_Sans_Pareil.jpg.9eca65984b22effdc2571e87aa4e0f4c.jpg

 

Now I can get the water slide transfers OK and the brass etched name plates.
I have also picked up a Class 87 double arm Pantograph. So, so far, I can make a passable version, but I want to go all out on this.

Firstly, I want to get it running as well as it can do, and while the power bogie has copper sleeves for the wheels, the non-powered one, just has the wheels set in a painted (blued?) groove, and I can't think this helps getting the electricity to the motor, there is not a brush in sight. Is there a brush kit I can add to improve conductivity? 
Moving on to modifications...
I intend to replace the windows, wipers etc, which are readily available, but There are a few things I hope some of you may have encountered and conquered before.  For starters, this particular machine has that smaller off-centred light next to one of the tail lights. I have not seen it recreated on any of the models available. I think it is white, but since it is not the centre powerful light, I am not sure what its purpose is.
Also, in respect of external detail, I am no expert on what it is, but the little flap panel at the front corner of the sides. On the models I have and seen it is an exposed socket of some kind. Can I get an etched kit that I can use to cover this, so it is that bit more authentic? Also with etchings, can you replace all the air vents on the sides with etched metal versions with actual vents, or am I just being silly now?
I would also like to convert it to DCC with Sounds and lights. Is there a light kit for the 86? and does it have cab/corridor lighting?
On the subject of the corridor, the modern class 87 appear to have an internal partition you can see through the side windows. Does anyone have any suggestions on recreating that? 
Finally for now ;-) I am not happy with the black ceramic insulators on the roof. I have both sets from the 86 and the 87, but neither of them seem chunky enough. Is there a third party set I can pick up?
Thank you for looking at my post and ramblings, I hope some of you may be able to help me on this?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

The pantograph should be a crossarm one. There is a Judith Edge kit, and it is exquisitely detailed, but it tested my soldering skills to the limit. It is poseable, but the parallel motion stumped me. I ended up doing Novelty with a Sommerfeldt pantograph, as the crossarm was for 86205.

 

Ultrascale wheels can be obtained, but make sure you order the right set, and there’s a 5 month lead time. You will probably need to make new pickups if your original model doesn’t already have pickups that contact the existing wheelsets’ tyres.

 

Bufferbeams have some detail, but I stopped short of the little triangular steps and the socket underneath, for now anyway.

 

It also needs a representation of the door handles at some point.

 

Glazing is cut from acetate sheet at the front with SE Models flushglaze on the sides.

 

Headcode boxes had the lip removed, a strip of 10thou plasticard glued to the front (keeping a small raised lip around the plasticard strip), and 2 holes for 2 short lengths of 2.5mm (outside diameter) plastic tubing. When set the centres were drilled out to 1/16th inch and clear plastic rod used for the lenses. This will allow for lights to be fitted, but I think you will need to get them through the cast cab interiors somehow.

Cans!.jpg.533671d7b88d9c1e0b11677ade239a2b.jpg20210423_175940.jpg.0fb50667d8bbebbc2c96700d3ececcd8.jpg100121717_DSC01542(2).JPG.c1b4d89d1065e7dffbcd45006fbeba2c.JPG

Edited by 97406
The sealed beam light surrounds were from 2.5mm tube, not 2mm
  • Like 5
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

We'll be listing these parts for sale shortly. They're 3D printed detail parts to upgrade your Hornby Class 86. We did a Class 90 detailing kit earlier and it proved to be very popular. So we're now doing a Class 86 detailing kit. The parts will be sold separately.

 

 

Class 86 Detailing Parts.jpg

  • Like 3
  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
36 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

We'll be listing these parts for sale shortly. They're 3D printed detail parts to upgrade your Hornby Class 86. We did a Class 90 detailing kit earlier and it proved to be very popular. So we're now doing a Class 86 detailing kit. The parts will be sold separately.

 

 

Class 86 Detailing Parts.jpg

Damn! I broke the compressor shelf this morning whilst trying to get the body off my new Heljan banger blue 86 and have just fitted one off a Hornby 86 underframe, but with the Heljan compressors. Still, would be interested with the compressor bits for the 3 Hornby models.

Link to post
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

We'll be listing these parts for sale shortly. They're 3D printed detail parts to upgrade your Hornby Class 86. We did a Class 90 detailing kit earlier and it proved to be very popular. So we're now doing a Class 86 detailing kit. The parts will be sold separately.

 

 

Class 86 Detailing Parts.jpg

These are mainly for an 86/6, this project is an 86/2, but the buffers  would be great!

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, forest2807 said:

Don’t forget to fill the small rectangular bodyside retaining clip holes, as 97406 has done.

It was part of my original question, I was asking if I could get a brass etched cover with the clasp and the hinge, I know a small oblong of metal sheet would be an improvement, but I was hoping for extra detail of the hinge ;-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Esmedune said:

 

Firstly, I want to get it running as well as it can do, and while the power bogie has copper sleeves for the wheels, the non-powered one, just has the wheels set in a painted (blued?) groove, and I can't think this helps getting the electricity to the motor, there is not a brush in sight. Is there a brush kit I can add to improve conductivity? 
 

 

This standard Hornby arrangement will only pick up power from one side (via the uninsulated wheels and 'live' axles) but in my experience it is worth removing the cast block and wheelsets, assembling these the right way up on a surface known to be completely flat (e.g. mirror) and check for any rocking of the cast block, as this indicates that the axle bearing slots are of slightly different depths, which will have a detrimental effect on current collection. Figure out which diagonally opposite slots require careful attention with a small round file to get the block to sit flat with no rocking - and while you have the file in hand give the other slots a quick pass too, to clean them up. 

Of course wiper pick-ups on both sides would be best of all, but doing the above should improve collection from the uninsulated wheels leaving a less complicated pick-up arrangement for the opposite side only. I've done this using phosphor bronze strip (or nickel silver wire) soldered to a piece of copper-clad glued to the top of the cast block. If you are proposing to retain the existing Hornby wheels consider (carefully!) cutting away the redundant gear teeth to give you a bigger contact area on the wheel backs.

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Esmedune said:

These are mainly for an 86/6, this project is an 86/2, but the buffers  would be great!

 

CAD is always flexible and I can always do detail parts for other sub-classes. Whatever you see in the image I shared above will be available separately i.e. as standalone products. 

Edited by MGR Hooper!
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, 97406 said:

Damn! I broke the compressor shelf this morning whilst trying to get the body off my new Heljan banger blue 86 and have just fitted one off a Hornby 86 underframe, but with the Heljan compressors. Still, would be interested with the compressor bits for the 3 Hornby models.

 

You can send me a PM and I'll notify you when the parts go on sale. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

CAD is always flexible and I can always do detail parts for other sub-classes. Whatever you see in the image I shared above will be available separately i.e. as standalone products. 

You will have to let me know when you are ready to release them, I have bookmarked your post.

Link to post
Share on other sites

97406, did you look into the buffer beam "furniture" and the triangular steps?
Apparently the large Hornby hook can get in the way of the larger buffers on tight turns. So I was thinking of removing one of them altogether and install all the furniture and try and use a smaller Bachmann's hook on the rear so as not to interfere with the buffers. Where did you get the coupling accessories from for yours? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my sole 86/0 rebuild/furb. I've done two 87s an 86/2 and a Trix 81 and a 303.  I tend to do these as a refresher between US projects. 

The mods to the chassis are;

1.a notch above the bufferbeam to let the light through to the offset headlight. This is a lens liberated from an Atlas HO numberboard/light group, IIRC off a SD35 whose drive I pinched for another project. A ring of heat shrink tube is then pressed over the lens prior to attaching. 

2. the triangular restraints aren't seperate part but whittled down from the /2 flexicoil springs that are integral with the chassis and bits of strip and rod attached to the outside and apex respectively.

 

The mu cables were removed from a broken class 50 shell off ebay, pipes and coupler are Hornby spares. The lamp brackets are Shawplan brass, and these also fold up nicely to make the triangular stirrups behind the buffers (which are A1 models). Wipers are also shawplan, the glazing is SE finecast. The cab interior is painted mid gray as are the sides of the windscreen pillars - which looks better than black to me. the control desk surface is gloss navy blue and the controls are black. The plated headcode is an etch by Jim Wright-Smith of  New St P4 fame. The modified sand fillers were also on that etch but might be acetate (overhead projector transparency) on this model. The cab front handrails are 0.33mm nickel silver for the grabs by the light, and 0.5mm brass for the full width one below the windscreens, mounted on three pins of the same. Getting the curved rail to sit level on the pins is the most irritating bit of the rebuild.

Paint is Revell 15 for the yellow and Phoenix rail blue and various enamels for the bus bar.

 

The panto is the Judith Edge kit with the simpler variant of top hinge. It does work and is fully sprung. I've done three of these now, and they get marginally easier with practice, but all three have a tendency to ping overheight, then the top bit folds over comically. I also haven't been able to make them stable enough to prevent tipping in contact with catenary wire (or a ruler edge simulation). I've done different versions of the thrust rods that sit beside the springs to no avail. I think the key here is to minimise friction through weak springing. 

 

Novelty is on my to-do list as its less work than Sans Pareil and maybe another 0+3 mu'd. 

Neill Horton

 

DSC_2292.JPG

DSC_2294.JPG

  • Like 6
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 25/04/2021 at 13:39, Esmedune said:

It was part of my original question, I was asking if I could get a brass etched cover with the clasp and the hinge, I know a small oblong of metal sheet would be an improvement, but I was hoping for extra detail of the hinge ;-)

I think we are at crossed-purposes. I'm referring to the fictional holes in the bodyside that Hornby use to fix the body to the lugs on the chassis. I think you are referring to the entirely prototypical sandbox fillers (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, forest2807 said:

I think we are at crossed-purposes. I'm referring to the fictional holes in the bodyside that Hornby use to fix the body to the lugs on the chassis. I think you are referring to the entirely prototypical sandbox fillers (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

No, you are correct ;-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
On 25/04/2021 at 19:08, Esmedune said:

97406, did you look into the buffer beam "furniture" and the triangular steps?
Apparently the large Hornby hook can get in the way of the larger buffers on tight turns. So I was thinking of removing one of them altogether and install all the furniture and try and use a smaller Bachmann's hook on the rear so as not to interfere with the buffers. Where did you get the coupling accessories from for yours? 

I was going to fold them from brass wire or strip, but the eyesight isn’t what it used to be when I used to model in my teens. The couplings are Accurascale - I only have a small depot inglenook layout, which is little more than a powered diorama so locos potter around uncoupled. If I eventually make a larger layout around the depot, then I’ll probably put a loop of wire for tension lock couplings, but I used to do it more subtly than the ones you often see on here. Bufferbeam details are a mix of leftovers from detailing packs and bits of wire. The ETH box is a square of plasticard. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgot to say that the ETH connectors are from Shapeways, IIRC in set of 6 or 24. The coupling loop is 8mm brass wire. 86010 and 87008 are intended to be a regular pairing; there's a shot from March 83 of them on a coil trail in the centre tracks at Carlisle, coupled pans-in, which does look a bit odd. 87008 is on a Limby chassis;  the no1 end has a wire loop, and the no2 end uses the NEM pocket and small coupler albeit with the hook shortened (by cutting and overlapping it) to eliminate slack. 86010 (and the rest) have wire loops both ends.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
2 hours ago, Anadin Dogwalker said:

Forgot to say that the ETH connectors are from Shapeways, IIRC in set of 6 or 24. The coupling loop is 8mm brass wire. 86010 and 87008 are intended to be a regular pairing; there's a shot from March 83 of them on a coil trail in the centre tracks at Carlisle, coupled pans-in, which does look a bit odd. 87008 is on a Limby chassis;  the no1 end has a wire loop, and the no2 end uses the NEM pocket and small coupler albeit with the hook shortened (by cutting and overlapping it) to eliminate slack. 86010 (and the rest) have wire loops both ends.

They look great - it makes me want to revisit the triangular steps on mine, now. It’ll be a while though as currently working on an 86/3 (from the recent Heljan purchase) which is coming on, and then the eponymous 97406, which will be a Frankenstein combination of Lima class 40 with Bachmann 37 cabs and Shawplan windscreens, with the backing plates this time.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Anadin Dogwalker said:

Forgot to say that the ETH connectors are from Shapeways, IIRC in set of 6 or 24. The coupling loop is 8mm brass wire. 86010 and 87008 are intended to be a regular pairing; there's a shot from March 83 of them on a coil trail in the centre tracks at Carlisle, coupled pans-in, which does look a bit odd. 87008 is on a Limby chassis;  the no1 end has a wire loop, and the no2 end uses the NEM pocket and small coupler albeit with the hook shortened (by cutting and overlapping it) to eliminate slack. 86010 (and the rest) have wire loops both ends.

8mm?!?!?  or 0.8mm?

Do you have a link for the ETH connectors??

Thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, 97406 said:

I was going to fold them from brass wire or strip, but the eyesight isn’t what it used to be when I used to model in my teens. The couplings are Accurascale - I only have a small depot inglenook layout, which is little more than a powered diorama so locos potter around uncoupled. If I eventually make a larger layout around the depot, then I’ll probably put a loop of wire for tension lock couplings, but I used to do it more subtly than the ones you often see on here. Bufferbeam details are a mix of leftovers from detailing packs and bits of wire. The ETH box is a square of plasticard. 

Gah!! The couplings are sold out :(  They look excellent too

Link to post
Share on other sites

www.shapeways.com/shop/ph3d

will get you to PH Designs, or if you go via www.shapeways.com/marketplace then filter in OO, British then put "eth" into the search box. Once they're painted up, it's a revelation how much detail  is on them and how much difference they make to a bufferbeam.

Yes the loop is 0.8mm

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

Some lovely looking Models on here. I'm doing an 86/0 conversion at the moment. Didn't know about the 3d Parts (they look very good by the way) so rebuilt the underframe with some bits, bobs, Plastic and Brass. Got a Bachmann AMBR to fit as well. Used some Craftsman WhiteMetal Bogie Brackets but they seem a bit big. Still pretty pleased with how it's me out so far.

received_1362887000817569.jpeg

received_314980587351252.jpeg

received_439057347975550.jpeg

received_1304882700013490.jpeg

Screenshot_20220220-222218_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20220220-222224_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20220220-222229_Gallery.jpg

Edited by TRAILRAGE
  • Like 2
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

To hide the holes where the clips engage, you can file the clips down on the chassis a little bit and also cut/file a chamfer around the corresponding rectangular hole in the body. Then get a plastic sandwich bag and assemble the body to the chassis with the bag in between, and use car body filler to fill in the slot on the body. Sand down and the slots are gone.100121717_DSC01542(2).JPG.c1b4d89d1065e7dffbcd45006fbeba2c.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...