Starting again in oo on dcc

[Henners84]

I am in (perhaps) the very fortunate position of converting from n to oo and can start afresh with my collection. When in n I learned the pain of combining different decoders amongst my fleet so would like to start afresh and only 'learn' how to use one brand. 

If you were to start again, what would you use and why? Important to me is slow speed performance and the ability to add a stay alive for some smaller locos. Sound is not important to me as I prefer to run without. I will be modeling a mix of steam and diesels in 50s/60s BR and 80s BR. 

Thanks in advance! 

Henry 

[jpendle]

Zimo, excellent motor control, some available for 20 quid. All have the same basic performance.

 

For the advanced user they support complex functions, swiss mapping for lights, etc, etc.

 

They also have built in overload protection so they are comparatively hard to blow up.

 

Their decoders can be updated to the latest firmware for bug fixes, enhancements, etc, if you have their decoder programmer or a Roco Z21.

 

Unlink ESU you can manage the programming without using JMRI.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[ITG]

Not used them myself, but have a look at DCC Concepts Zen decoders, which I have seen advertised with stay alives.

 

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product-category/decoders-and-installation/dccconcepts-zen-decoders/

 

no connection etc......

 

 

[mikeg]

Henry I to recommend Zimo decoders, I have tried most makes and have slowly been replacing them with Zimo. I think that the £20 MX600 is very good value for money for non sound and MX645R for sound. The size of both chips will fit in most locos I think but as I have mainly O gauge I have limited knowledge of OO, I mainly have diesels in the scale so plenty of space.

 

regards Mike 

[Kaput]

Can't really go wrong with Zimo for what you require.

 

£20 decoder available in all main connection types and if space is an issue the more expensive smaller ones are available.

 

As mentioned above, all have the same basic firmware for motor control etc and due to not using index CV's like ESU they are fairly simple to program without a computer interface.

 

If I could make any critism of them I kinda wish they'd replace the MX600R as the £20 8pin decoder with something a little less long and with the proper stay alive solder pads.

[Nigelcliffe]

15 minutes ago, Kaput said:

Can't really go wrong with Zimo for what you require.

 

.............

 

If I could make any critism of them I kinda wish they'd replace the MX600R as the £20 8pin decoder with something a little less long and with the proper stay alive solder pads.

 

Not clearly documented, but one of the big pads on the back of the MX600 is the decoder ground.  Far simpler than hitting a wire between the two diodes, unless stuck for vertical space.   ( No I don't know off-hand which of the pads, so rather than me googling it for people......).  

 

[pauliebanger]

Another vote for ZIMO. Absolutely top draw kit.

 

I know you said you're not interested in sound, but stranger 'conversions' have happened. LOL

 

If you do decide to adopt sound, everything you have learned aboiut programming ZIMO non-sound decoders will still be valid with ZIMO sound decoders, you'll just need to learn any aditional features specific to sound.

 

This probably applies to ESU too (don't know, I prefer ZIMO) but will definitely not apply to brands which do not have sound decoders in the same range. (most others)

 

Also note that ESU decoders for the UK market do not use the NMRA standard multipier for CVs 3 and 4, which makes them tricky to consist with other brands (virtually all others).

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[Hamburger]

1 hour ago, pauliebanger said:

Also note that ESU decoders for the UK market do not use the NMRA standard multipier for CVs 3 and 4, which makes them tricky to consist with other brands (virtually all others).

Facts:

1. The multiplier is not an NMRA standard, just a recommendation.

2. Is it really that "tricky" to only multiply two (!) Values by 3.6 to get the same results? Don't believe.

3. The real problem is with most of the Zimo decoders, because the acceleration / deceleration curve (not the speed curve) differs from all other manufacturers. Zimo sorted that with the latest MS decoder series, but other Zimo decoders still have this Zimo-specific curve incompatible with other brands.

 

[Michael Hodgson]

23 hours ago, jpendle said:

Their decoders can be updated to the latest firmware for bug fixes, enhancements, etc, if you have their decoder programmer or a Roco Z21.

 

How often does one find a bug in decoder software or identify a desirable enhancement that the manufacture has decided to start supporting?  Isn't there something to be said for a policy of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

[jpendle]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

How often does one find a bug in decoder software or identify a desirable enhancement that the manufacture has decided to start supporting?  Isn't there something to be said for a policy of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Depends what you are doing.

I was able to resolve an issue with MX622 decoders running at different speeds compared to MX617 decoders, by updating the MX622's to the same firmware revision as the MX617's.

Up until then I couldn't double head loco's that had different decoders in them.

 

I am now using Railcom and there have been a number of Railcom enhancements.

 

Up until having issues with double heading and Railcom I hadn't bothered with any updates. 

 

I really like the fact that if I suspect an issue with a decoder I can visit the Zimo website and look to see if there are any known issues, and whether they have been fixed.

The same is true for ESU decoders.

 

If I have an issue with another decoder brand then my only option would be to buy a different decoder.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Nigelcliffe]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

How often does one find a bug in decoder software or identify a desirable enhancement that the manufacture has decided to start supporting?  Isn't there something to be said for a policy of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

 

I agree.   

But I have just gone round updating several of my Zimo fitted locos to a new version to support the "automatic consisting" feature as well as updating the Swiss Mapping lighting features.   But whether those features are useful to someone else is another question. 

 

- Nigel

[Mike Buckner]

I'd be grateful if someone could point me to a link describing updated features of Zimo decoders. I have several older MX600.

 

Cheers

Mike

[trevora]

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/index.html

[Henners84]

Thanks for all your good advice. I think I'll give zimo a try. 

I thought it'd be easy, just go online and find a non sound 21 pin for my Bachmann class 47,then I find out there are 3 options... Anyone know what the differences are between MX634D, MX636D and MX638D? 

Thanks again! 

Henry 

[WIMorrison]

You will find the details of the decoders here

 

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/products/lokdecoder_EN.htm

 

you can simply look at each decoder to see what each one offers

[Ron Ron Ron]

MX634D   High spec decoder with 6- function outputs

MX636D   High spec decoder with 8- function outputs, higher power rating and adjustable low voltage outputs

MX638D   Lower cost version of the MX634D (e.g. no solder pads for energy storage module)

 

Note:

634 & 638 are the same size

636 is slightly longer in length

 

.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[Henners84]

Forgive me, but I still struggle to understand the differences. If I want stay alive (prob not necessary on a class 47 but relevant maybe for a 08) I should avoid the 638d. Out of the others, what does a higher power rating and adjustable low voltage output give me in the real world? Any benefit to slow speed running? Is an extra 2 function outputs worth having? In the absence of sound I guess I only need function outputs for light combinations or are there any clever aspects to save a function or two for? 

Comments very much appreciated, thanks, Henry 

[Nigelcliffe]

Unless the motor in the loco is incredibly power hungry (most are not in 00), then no advantage in the power output. 

 

The stay-alive hookup is slightly simpler with the onboard provision, but its pretty trivial to add to any 21pin decoder socket in the loco, so not a massive factor.  

 

The number of function outputs are for independent lights and related features (eg. fans, opening doors, driver waving out of cab window, etc..).  If you don't plan to fit any more of those, no reason to have more function outputs. 

All elements of motor control quality and slow running ability are the same in Zimo decoders.  

 

 

[Henners84]

6 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Unless the motor in the loco is incredibly power hungry (most are not in 00), then no advantage in the power output. 

 

The stay-alive hookup is slightly simpler with the onboard provision, but its pretty trivial to add to any 21pin decoder socket in the loco, so not a massive factor.  

 

The number of function outputs are for independent lights and related features (eg. fans, opening doors, driver waving out of cab window, etc..).  If you don't plan to fit any more of those, no reason to have more function outputs. 

All elements of motor control quality and slow running ability are the same in Zimo decoders.  

 

 

That's perfect, thanks. Waving drivers and opening doors are a little advanced for me so I think I go basic with zimo! 

[Henners84]

7 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Unless the motor in the loco is incredibly power hungry (most are not in 00), then no advantage in the power output. 

 

The stay-alive hookup is slightly simpler with the onboard provision, but its pretty trivial to add to any 21pin decoder socket in the loco, so not a massive factor.  

 

The number of function outputs are for independent lights and related features (eg. fans, opening doors, driver waving out of cab window, etc..).  If you don't plan to fit any more of those, no reason to have more function outputs. 

All elements of motor control quality and slow running ability are the same in Zimo decoders.  

 

 

Hi Nigelcliff, do you know how I can add a stay alive capacitor if I get the decoder without stay alive provision? Thought I could find the answer on google but appears not! 

[Nigelcliffe]

In the Zimo decoder manual (from Zimo's website). 

On my blog posts. 

On the Youchoos.co.uk website (Zimo retailer with lot of stay-alive information, including supply of charging circuit options). 

 

Essentially, identify decoder positive and decoder ground on the MTC21 connector.  (In the Zimo manual, but any source will have those identified as the connections are standard).

Then, in loco fit charging circuit (either buy one, or its a diode+resistor, and optional zener diode) to the positive and ground, and the capacitors after the charging circuit.

 

There are ready-made stay-alive modules from a variety of DCC sources which include the charging circuit, just connect to the positive and ground.  Makers include TCS and Lais.  

 

 

[Haymarket47]

On 26/04/2021 at 14:02, Hamburger said:

Facts:

1. The multiplier is not an NMRA standard, just a recommendation.

2. Is it really that "tricky" to only multiply two (!) Values by 3.6 to get the same results? Don't believe.

3. The real problem is with most of the Zimo decoders, because the acceleration / deceleration curve (not the speed curve) differs from all other manufacturers. Zimo sorted that with the latest MS decoder series, but other Zimo decoders still have this Zimo-specific curve incompatible with other brands.

 

So which decoder type are you recommending?

[NickC]

After trying various different decoders my personal choice is as follows:

• If a stay alive is not needed, Zimo every time
• If a stay alive is needed, TCS Kam4 (decoder with integrated stay alive) if there is space or Zimo if you’re happy with more soldering

both support Railcom which I use with my Z21 controller 

 

[Hamburger]

4 hours ago, Haymarket47 said:

So which decoder type are you recommending?

Depends on.

 

Drive-only decoders: Lenz or Zimo.

 

Sound: depending on the layout and type of locomotive:

For diesel, I am clearly voting for ESU because it is the very best (only?) decoder when it comes to exactly reproducing all the sound variations of a diesel. See Legomanbiffo's files.

For steam if you are just shunting around in the yard, Zimo is not a bad choice.  However, if you want to drive on a mainline I'd prefer ESU or D&H, because they are much better in reproducing good sounding chuffs at higher speed especially if you have a 3-cylinder loco..

 

[Mike Buckner]

I'm not familiar with the concept of :

 

On 26/04/2021 at 14:02, Hamburger said:

the acceleration / deceleration curve (not the speed curve)

 

I would be grateful for some enlightenment. Particularly, how it:

 

On 26/04/2021 at 14:02, Hamburger said:

differs from all other manufacturers.

 

Thanks,

Mike