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Dapol FEA Spine Wagon Fracturing Issue


martin_l_jones
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So, it's back to my suggestion that the holes are filled with something that will seal them.  It's now a matter of deciding what is the best substance to use for those of us who want to attempt to preserve our currently OK stock.

Edited by Dixie Dean
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16 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said:

So, it's back to my suggestion that the holes are filled with something that will seal them.  It's now a matter of deciding what is the best substance to use for those of us who want to attempt to preserve our currently OK stock.

I fear it is only a matter of time  before they split unless it is a good batch of alloy in the core?

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My scientist friend suggests spraying WD40 Dry PTFE spray in the holes in the underside.  He suggests this will minimise any further incursions of moisture.  I think it's worth a punt.  You can get it from places like Screwfix for just over a fiver.

Edited by Dixie Dean
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1 hour ago, Mark Saunders said:

I fear it is only a matter of time before they split unless it is a good batch of alloy in the core?

 

I think I agree.  I have a Hornby Class 31, which was fine when others were reporting problems with theirs.  However, a couple of years ago, my by then 12 or 13 year old model had started to show the signs others had reported years earlier, with a small crack on the body shell - it had been fine up to that point.  It's now out of its original box with the body and chassis separate pending a decision on what to do with it.  Obviously mine either had a lower concentration of impurities in the alloy, or the conditions in which it is kept, doesn't accelerate the corrosion of the impurities as quickly in other environments.  However, if there is a problem, I think it will manifest itself eventually.

 

I guess in the case of the FEA-B, the solution is to get as much value from it whilst it's still okay.

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1 minute ago, Dungrange said:

 

I guess in the case of the FEA-B, the solution is to get as much value from it whilst it's still okay.

 

The name of a popular lunch time TV show on BBC 1?

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2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

If it is a simple mazak bar with no projections or recesses, it should be possible to cut the plastic of the spine laterally, and withdraw the bar.

 

It is likely that the bogie pivot screws are tapped into the mazak- this may be a complicating factor.

 

If I had an affected model, it would certainly be worth a discreet cut with a razor saw.

 

John Isherwood.

 

The bogies are mounted onto plastic. The central weight doesn't extend over the bogies.

 

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If others from the same batch are OK then it might not be the casting but the plastic used for the Fastline wagons (if it was a different colour to GBRf or Freightliner versions) - China has had well-documented problems in the past with quality of plastics (particularly recycled plastics, so much so that there has been a ban on importing plastic for recycling to China for the last few years).

 

It would be interesting to hear if there any owners of the Fastline version that don't have issues.

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On 28/04/2021 at 07:39, Graham108 said:

Were Dapol responsible for making those sold by Hattons?

 

It would appear not, they are visibly different in detail

Edited by Dixie Dean
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1 hour ago, Dixie Dean said:

Is it only Fastline units that have been reported so far?

 

The photograph in the first post looks like a Freightliner wagon.  However, it does sound as though it's perhaps the Fastline units that are most affected.

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14 hours ago, Dixie Dean said:

Is it only Fastline units that have been reported so far?

I checked mine this evening.

 

Freightliner twin pack 640213 & 640214 bought second-hand in May 2019 shows cracks, as per the pictures.

 

Freightliner twin pack 640155 & 640156 and twin pack 640177 & 640178, bought new Summer 2019, shown no external signs of damage.

 

 

1768929777_FLFEA-B640214v2.jpg.2080ac2ef0934b716bb6b199357cf8f1.jpg

 

 

1240665415_FLFEA-B640213v2.jpg.a7073fe31ed3167dda799412f1f7dd77.jpg

 

 

Edited by Damo666
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21 hours ago, Dixie Dean said:

My scientist friend suggests spraying WD40 Dry PTFE spray in the holes in the underside.  He suggests this will minimise any further incursions of moisture.  I think it's worth a punt.  You can get it from places like Screwfix for just over a fiver.

Certainly the easiest solution suggested so far.   But it should presumably be repeated from time to time.  

But would oil prevent some sort of filler applied at a later date from sealing properly to the plastic?  

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28 minutes ago, 97xx said:

On the issue of recourse against Dapol, one potential line of inquisition is that given the rot can only occur if the mix is faulty, then these were unmerchantable from Day One. You paid for something that would definitely fail.

 

I am certainly no lawyer, but does the law not include any proviso as to unknowingly selling an item which is subsequently found to be defective?

 

.... no provision as to the period of time after sale that such defects become apparent?

 

.... no provision as to the reasonable expected life of the product?

 

Just questions for a more legally knowledgeable member.

 

John Isherwood.

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36 minutes ago, 97xx said:

I find it immensely disappointing that such a large failure in quality control and/or assurance should still be happening in this day and age with a path so well understood around Mazak. But it is china of course.

 

The Mazak rot will 100% happen with the wrong impurities in the mix. It is only a matter of time, although moisture does seem to accelerate it. I don't think anyone should ever be feeling themselves to blame because their railway room environment was too 'whatever'.

 

On the issue of recourse against Dapol, one potential line of inquisition is that given the rot can only occur if the mix is faulty, then these were unmerchantable from Day One. You paid for something that would definitely fail.

 

I recently had a 20-year old dishwasher control unit quite literally blow up. I was going to replace it myself, but found out when searching to see what might have caused it (on the basis of 'if a fuse blows best to know why') I established that this was a recall issue in 2011. The manufacturer came out and fixed it FoC as it was a known manufacturing defect in the PCB that they established was very likely to eventually fail quite catastrophically, irrespective of when.

 

Obviously that was  a safety issue, but the principal of embedded fault remains so might be worth discussing with Dapol.

What qualifies you to make such a remark?

Do you know the details of the contract?

Do you know just what controls were placed on the quality of the raw material?

Do you know for certain who is to responsible?

Before making racist comments I suggest you back up what you write with hard evidence.

 

To keep on topic my, very early, pair are OK.

Bernard  

 

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1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

What qualifies you to make such a remark?

Do you know the details of the contract?

Do you know just what controls were placed on the quality of the raw material?

Do you know for certain who is to responsible?

Before making racist comments I suggest you back up what you write with hard evidence.

 

To keep on topic my, very early, pair are OK.

Bernard  

 

In respect of china, a number of years of experience of dealing with them. Which includes:

(a) Goods contractually specified to one standard, but subsequently manufactured to a lower one;

(b) Goods manufactured poorly and not picked up in agreed QA processes;

(c) Intellectual property stolen to a very significant value (multiple millions).

 

So, I'm sorry that you don't like my comment, but it is factual which is not racist.

 

Yes, I do not have knowledge of Dapol's contract so perhaps they specified a duff material specification...

 

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1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

I am certainly no lawyer, but does the law not include any proviso as to unknowingly selling an item which is subsequently found to be defective?

 

.... no provision as to the period of time after sale that such defects become apparent?

 

.... no provision as to the reasonable expected life of the product?

 

Just questions for a more legally knowledgeable member.

 

John Isherwood.

 

Under the Consumer Rights Act of 2015, the appearance of a defect is not related to whether it was incorporated knowingly or unknowingly - it is defined in simplest terms as goods that are of satisfactory quality, fit for the particular purpose intended, are as advertised/described and match any specifications shown or claimed.

 

The wrinkle is that the Consumer Rights Act of 2015 gives you six years to make a claim for faulty goods, and within that "Any question as to what is a reasonable time or significant inconvenience is to be determined taking account of—

(a)  the nature of the goods, and

(b)  the purpose for which the goods were acquired"

 

So, on the one hand if you have items less than 6 years old, you do have a right to repair or replacement (especially if you can demonstrate as many of you can that there has been no implicated wear and tear), but after that it would be more of a Goodwill conversation - but the public knowledge and scale of a particular issue may help you reach an amicable middle ground.

 

 

 

 

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I've been in touch with Hattons Pre-Owned and they've offered me £53 part ex against some other models for 3 x pristine boxes of GBRf B740A.  I must admit I've no idea what I paid for them when new.  Anyone on here know what it might have been?

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20 hours ago, Dungrange said:

 

The photograph in the first post looks like a Freightliner wagon.  However, it does sound as though it's perhaps the Fastline units that are most affected.


Yes they were Freightliner and they are at Dapol at the moment being investigated.

 

I assume all the Fastline FEAs were produced at the same time being a single release in 2009 which clearly comes down to an issue with that batch of material. 
 

I personally have a bigger issue with my Freightliner models. Doesn’t seem to be any issues reported with the GB ones yet.

Edited by martin_l_jones
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18 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said:

I must admit I've no idea what I paid for them when new.  Anyone on here know what it might have been?

 

The wagons that I have are both Freightliner bought new from Harburn Hobbies about 12 years ago.  The price ticket on B724 D states £19.53 and the price ticket on B724 F states £19.95.

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1 minute ago, Dungrange said:

 

The wagons that I have are both Freightliner bought new from Harburn Hobbies about 12 years ago.  The price ticket on B724 D states £19.53 and the price ticket on B724 F states £19.95.

 

So, the offer isn't that bad really, especially considering what they would be worth if they start breaking up.  Thanks Dungrange, much appreciated

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5 hours ago, 97xx said:

In respect of china, a number of years of experience of dealing with them. Which includes:

(a) Goods contractually specified to one standard, but subsequently manufactured to a lower one;

(b) Goods manufactured poorly and not picked up in agreed QA processes;

(c) Intellectual property stolen to a very significant value (multiple millions).

 

So, I'm sorry that you don't like my comment, but it is factual which is not racist.

 

Yes, I do not have knowledge of Dapol's contract so perhaps they specified a duff material specification...

 


I’ve been married into a Chinese family for many more years, and I find your choice of words (such as your use of “them”) offensive and racist…

 

Edit: I have also suffered a) and b) from British companies and c) from several other countries.

 

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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On 06/05/2021 at 20:53, Dixie Dean said:

 

So, the offer isn't that bad really, especially considering what they would be worth if they start breaking up.  Thanks Dungrange, much appreciated

 

That's a good offer, all my original wagons were £19 from Hatton's, but to replace them now you'll be paying £40 plus at today's prices.

Edited by martin_l_jones
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Checked mine over and all but just a few have cracks, though a number of them are very minor but could propagate over time I would imagine.  The worst is a spine-length crack on both in B724C (£19.53).  Looking at them very closely, it is difficult to tell if there is a plastic outer casing over a metal structure but either way they do appear to be some kind of laminated structure.

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Checked my two Freightliner pairs and 4 GBRF pairs over and all seems to be ok. They were all purchased from Replica Railways when first released so probably didn't pay more than £19 a pair  They were until last year stored in loft  (best part of 8 years) but subsequently been in the Garage which is insulated with space foam. The wooden floor is suspended of the concrete and I use a small Background heater to try and keep the temperature consistent.  Been caught out before with Mazak Rot on two Hornby 31's and a Heljan 47.  Hopefully they will survive as there is no way Id be able to replace them with A - current prices, B - being furloughed for over 6 months and C - being recently made redundant  I would have to sell a Kidney to afford it!

 

Hoping this ends in a good way 

 

Cheers Trailrage

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