Seeking 80” Diameter Drivers in S Hirail or NASG Scale For US Loco.

[Nortonville Phil]

My friend Tom is seeking advice on S drivers that may be available in the UK. In the post above he mentions Slaters axles to be used with some US drivers. Are there other options that you folks are aware of? Thank you in advance for any advice. 
 

Phil Randall

Dallas Texas

Edited April 27, 2021 by Nortonville Phil
Signature added

[steverabone]

Markits do a 4mm scale wheel of 32mm which will  be the right size. They also do S Scale axles.

 

I used them on my Jubilee - http://www.steverabone.com/sscalewebsite/building_jubilee_460.html

 

Highly recommended as quartering  is automatic with screw fixings and the wheels are, I think, RP25 profile.

 

Markits (UK) Ltd.
PO Box 40
Watford
Hertfordshire
WD24 6TN
UK.

OrdersTel (44) (0) 1923 249711
Monday to Friday 11:00 - 16:30 (UK TIME!!!!)

e-Mail: markits@btinternet.com

 

[Regularity]

Hi Stephen,

 

RP-25 is a Recommended Practice, with numerous codes (relating to the width of the tyre in thousandths of an inch).

So, which RP25 code are your Romfords?

 

1:64 wheels, to scale, have a wheel which is 0.087" wide (aka "Code 87", 2.23mm wide) , but the NASG/NMRA "scale" wheel is code 110 (roughly 2.8mm. For comparison, a Proto:48 wheel is code 115, so these are quite wide). I don't even want to think about the Hirail tyre profile, but I think they might use them in pizza parlours.

 

Most US S scale locos use larger diameter axles, too: often 3/16" diameter, or even 5mm. Again, these are the 0 scale standards, and more robust (and more robust than possibly needed!)

 

UK S scale tends to use 4mm scale components, e.g. axles of ⅛" diameter, and the "Pendon" standard (EM-fine, "Manchester standard") of EM profile - as sold by Ultrascale - is directly compatible with our scale wheel standards, differing only in the depth of the flange. Other EM profiles can also be used, by adjusting the back-to-back to provide the correct check gauge, or by removing 3 thou off the back of the tyre.

 

There is also the question of the number of spokes... Unfortunately, all of these facts are not included in the original request, however, if such information is supplied to David Bigcheeseplant, he could probably produce a suitable centre, but the issue over the tyres would remain, and these would need to be sourced separately: I don't know if anyone in the UK produces plastic centred wheels with steel tyres of the required "code", let alone to the required diameter of 1 ¼". (If they did, the centres could be pushed out.)

[Thomas Stoltz]

Hi all,

I went to the Markits website, OO under construction since 24 Sept 2020… nothing there.  The 7mm page did have a .pdf however I didn’t see any wheel centers or tyres.

My first post pretty well summarizes what I plan, except the number of spokes.  17 is preferred, but I could live with 16, maybe 18.

The best I have come up with so far is to use a 60” (1524mm) 7mm scale driver to stand in for a 80” (2032mm) S scale driver.  The .115” tyre width is not a problem as far as I can tell.  I’m curious about using the Slater’s 19mm back to back 7mm narrow gauge axle for S gauge.  Because the axles are 3/16”, I’ll have to bore out the bearing hole a bit, shouldn’t be an issue.

I would like to find a source of S scale drivers, O scale drivers used for S are a bit heavy looking.  The one I’m looking at has an okay hub size but the center’s rim is too thick.  However it seems to be the only game in town.

Hi-rail wheels do not have pizza cutter flanges, perhaps you are thinking of the old American Flyer S scale trains.  They are however in between scale and Flyer

Tom Stoltz

in Maine USA

[Timber]

Thomas - try this link.

 

http://www.markits.com/MARKITS_Price_Guide_2013_09.pdf

 

the width of the markit tyre is 1/10 inch (from memory).  The best approach is to call them up.  Delivery is usually delayed as they are very busy.   Markit will also sell you the S Scale axle.  It is 1/8 diameter so you may need someone to make you a bearing.   The wheels are available as insulated or non insulated.  You are probbaly not going to get the correct number of spokes but you will get a very strong wheel.  You will also need one of their nut spinners.

 

 

[Thomas Stoltz]

Thanks, perhaps I'm missing something, but I didn't see and O scale drivers in their catalog.  Plenty of 4mm, but no 7mm.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine USA

[Thomas Stoltz]

Thanks, perhaps I'm missing something, but I didn't see and O scale drivers in their catalog.  Plenty of 4mm, but no 7mm.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine USA

[Timber]

Why not use the 4mm wheel that Steven recomended?  I have just checked one of their drivers.  The tyres are 2.54 mm....this is an S Scale equivalent of nearly 6.5 inches......I have no idea how wide american loco drivers are but this feels ok. 

 

80 inch is equiavlent to 6'8".  In S Scale at 4.76mm to the foot this is 31.7mm.  So if you ask Markits for the closest 4mm wheel at 31.7mm and then buy the S Scale axles that fit their 4mm wheels then you should be fine.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Timber

[Thomas Stoltz]

If I did my numbers correctly 80" in S is 95.25" in OO, 108.875" in HO, and 60"in O.  The largest diameter driver Markits lists is 84" in OO and at 22 spokes, way too many.

Markits has replied to me and suggested Slater's... oh well, so much for that.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine USA

[Grovenor]

Alan Gibson Workshop do a range of S scale wheels to order.

See http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/Catalogue.pdf

S scale is on page 40.

 

Driving wheels of 80" in UK practice will have 21 or 22 spokes, no UK prototype of such size has fewer spokes.

 

NB. The catalogue entry for the carriage and wagon wheels appears to have the mm dimensions for 00, not S. I'm pretty sure this is a misprint, go by the given prototype size.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Grovenor

[Regularity]

On 03/05/2021 at 14:19, Thomas Stoltz said:

If I did my numbers correctly 80" in S is 95.25" in OO, 108.875" in HO, and 60"in O.  The largest diameter driver Markits lists is 84" in OO and at 22 spokes, way too many.

Markits has replied to me and suggested Slater's... oh well, so much for that.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine USA

Hi Tom,

 

The problem here is that, to paraphrase Oscar Wilde, we are two countries separated by a common gauge, when it comes to S scale (and others, come to that)! We might share the gauge, but not the standards...

 

UK S scale has never had any significant trade support, and starting in 1919 has been a pioneer of what we would now call "finescale"modelling, when Charles Wynne decided his 1:64 models would be built to within a scale inch of the prototype: even our original "coarse" standards used ⅞" track gauge and what the NMRA might call "code 94" wheels (a scale 6" wide, with a scale 2" deep and scale 1" wide flange): these were already narrower than the code 110 so-called NMRA/NASG "scale" standard. On top of this, North American prototypes often have fewer spokes than over here: a 55" driver may be 12 or 13 spoke on your side of the herring pond, but would typically be 14 or 15 spokes over here.

 

If you can get suitable code 110 tyres, I daresay you would have wheel centres 3D printed for them, though. If produced in brass, some machining might be required.

 

2 hours ago, Grovenor said:

Alan Gibson Workshop do a range of S scale wheels to order.

They have to be fitted into the production sequence, so it can be a long wait - that's a reflection of the economic realities, not a criticism of AGW.

[Thomas Stoltz]

Yes, certainly very different prototypes.  I should give up on wheel centers from your side unless someone did an American driver.

Thank you for all the input, it has helped my search.  No one did comment on the use of the Slater's 19mm B2B for use in S.

Another question is how do I set my posts to get notified when a new post comes in?  I did the follow button at the top, but I still do not receive notices.

Tom Stoltz

from the other side.

[MarshLane]

On 04/05/2021 at 18:45, Thomas Stoltz said:

Yes, certainly very different prototypes.  I should give up on wheel centers from your side unless someone did an American driver.

Thank you for all the input, it has helped my search.  No one did comment on the use of the Slater's 19mm B2B for use in S.

Another question is how do I set my posts to get notified when a new post comes in?  I did the follow button at the top, but I still do not receive notices.

Tom Stoltz

from the other side.

 

Hi Thomas,

When you click on the 'Follow' option at the top of the page, you should have various options from just notifications on rmWeb (top right of the page is the alerts/notification system) to receiving daily or weekly emails with updates.

 

Rich