Turn table indexing

[Andymsa]

This subject really falls into two different camps as you will see. A little background, I have a Roco turntable which I have had a few years doing nothing so I brand new as such, it was tested when I got it and it was running ok. I tested it the other day and the motor just not wants to run now I have eliminated the gears, I removed the motor and it is very reluctant to run still. So I started looking at 3rd party mechanisms with indexing and it seems there is really nothing out there that works with dcc and can also be connected to software. I have found one from a German manufacturer, I was really surprised by the lack of availability considering the popularity of dcc. So the question is have I missed any manufacturers of such systems?

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, Andymsa said:

This subject really falls into two different camps as you will see. A little background, I have a Roco turntable which I have had a few years doing nothing so I brand new as such, it was tested when I got it and it was running ok. I tested it the other day and the motor just not wants to run now I have eliminated the gears, I removed the motor and it is very reluctant to run still. So I started looking at 3rd party mechanisms with indexing and it seems there is really nothing out there that works with dcc and can also be connected to software. I have found one from a German manufacturer, I was really surprised by the lack of availability considering the popularity of dcc. So the question is have I missed any manufacturers of such systems?

You need to work out why it won't work, before you attempt to connect DCC to it.

 

Not clear from the above, but does the motor run OK? Lost magnetism - seems unlikely, if you haven't dismantled the motor. Is the lubrication seized up - gone all sticky? Clean and relubricate with a plastic compatible grease.

[Andymsa]

Just now, kevinlms said:

You need to work out why it won't work, before you attempt to connect DCC to it.

 

Not clear from the above, but does the motor run OK? Lost magnetism - seems unlikely, if you haven't dismantled the motor. Is the lubrication seized up - gone all sticky? Clean and relubricate with a plastic compatible grease.

This was tested not on dcc, i did say I had removed the motor so the gears or lubrication is not the issue. The motor is completely isolated if I qive it a flick with the finger it will work one way until power is removed and if reapplied then nothing again. I can feel some resistance in the motor with power applied as if it’s trying to move as if it’s not got enough omph. The supply power is ok and have used two different power supplies. The next test will be a direct power test on the motor this will determine if it’s that or something else.

[drmditch]

I think that the Roco turntable is actually the same as the Fleischmann one.
(Subject to correction).
I had a problem with mine and the solution is shown and discussed ....here....

 

[KingEdwardII]

14 hours ago, Andymsa said:

it seems there is really nothing out there that works with dcc and can also be connected to software

I'm not sure that is quite the case.

 

There are folk who have put together DCC driven stepper controllers for turntables and there is a full kit available here:

 

https://www.dccinterface.com/product/model-railway-premium-dcc-turntable-controller-kit-direct-mount/

 

These controllers are typically based on Arduinos with shields or other extension boards. They handle both the DCC decoder aspects and also drive the stepper motor.

 

Whether this particular solution can fit the Fleischmann turntable, I'm not sure, but it can handle the Peco turntable.

 

 

Yours,  Mike.

 

[Andymsa]

3 hours ago, drmditch said:

I think that the Roco turntable is actually the same as the Fleischmann one.
(Subject to correction).
I had a problem with mine and the solution is shown and discussed ....here....

 

The Roco turntable does not have the same mechanism as the fleischmann.

 

[Andymsa]

27 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said:

I'm not sure that is quite the case.

 

There are folk who have put together DCC driven stepper controllers for turntables and there is a full kit available here:

 

https://www.dccinterface.com/product/model-railway-premium-dcc-turntable-controller-kit-direct-mount/

 

These controllers are typically based on Arduinos with shields or other extension boards. They handle both the DCC decoder aspects and also drive the stepper motor.

 

Whether this particular solution can fit the Fleischmann turntable, I'm not sure, but it can handle the Peco turntable.

 

 

Yours,  Mike.

 

Yes I had seen that system, having just looked at it again I realised why I discounted it. There appears to be no phone contact info and all contact is via email. I have been caught out like this before so now make it a point not to deal with complies I can’t talk too by phone.

 

 

[Andymsa]

I have now removed the motor and it’s definitely the motor at fault, even with a direct feed it still does the same. So I’m going to remove the brushes and give things a good clean.

[Pete the Elaner]

I have never really understood the point of an indexed turntable, or having a dedicated control for it.

It runs from a motor, just like locos...so why not treat it as one?

For DC, I would treat it as a separate section & for DCC, just stick a decoder on it.

This is similar to a real turntable operator. They didn't hit a button & expect it to stop with the rails aligned; they had to drive it using steam, electric or through hard work by winding a handle. They stopped it where required by slowing down & stopping in the correct place.

It will not suffer the low speed jerks of a loco because these are usually caused by the wheel/rail connection. A hard wired motor in a turntable will have no such connection to trouble it.

Surely this is more fun than an indexed system?

[jpendle]

I could be wrong, I often am 

But I think the OP may be considering automation for his layout, hence the desire for indexing.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[HLT 0109]

8 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

This is similar to a real turntable operator. They didn't hit a button & expect it to stop with the rails aligned; they had to drive it using steam, electric or through hard work by winding a handle. They stopped it where required by slowing down & stopping in the correct place.

That's all very well if the model turntable is positioned where there is good line of sight for allignment of the tracks but, if not, then indexing becomes essential.

 

Harold.

[Andymsa]

1 hour ago, jpendle said:

I could be wrong, I often am 

But I think the OP may be considering automation for his layout, hence the desire for indexing.

 

Regards,

 

John P

spot on.

[KingEdwardII]

11 hours ago, Andymsa said:

I have been caught out like this before so now make it a point not to deal with complies I can’t talk too by phone.

Wow. I can't remember the last time I contacted a model railway supplier by phone. It's the ones who don't have a proper website and require orders placed by phone that I typically avoid. I'm probably too wedded to my computers...

 

Mike.

[KingEdwardII]

11 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

or through hard work by winding a handle.

At Didcot GWS, the turntable is moved literally by brute force - folks pushing hard on a handle attached to the bridge, with no winding mechanism. But that makes the process slow and steady and it is easy to judge when the bridge rails are aligned with one of the exits.

 

Not quite so easy when you're dealing with a small piece of model kit typically at some distance away with rails you may have trouble seeing well enough to obtain alignment, controlled via a knob that adjusts motor speed rather than turntable position. Stepper motors and indexing do make this a lot easier. It's what they were invented for.

 

Yours, Mike.

[Andymsa]

During the research of turntables in general it has become very apparent how much little choice there is especially for European layouts.