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Midland compound 4-4-0 info


mswjr
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Hi all, A question for you please, I am building a LMS compound in gauge one, so it is being scrat built, There are not a lot of detail pictures to be found, Can anyone tell me what the bits with pipework on , that are on the side of the boiler barrel and smoke box, They all have it on, some on the left and some on the right, I have no idea on anything midland, so this is why i am asking, i assume it is a ejector but not at all certain, if i know what it is i may be able to get a casting from the suppliers, Or better still has anyone got a good close up shot.

Thankyou

Garry

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Yes,  ejectors.

 

LMS or Midland though?   They were two entirely different beasts with little in common. Even have different size wheels. 

 

If LMS then this is the book you need.

 

LMS Loco Profiles No.13 The Standard Compounds

Hunt, Jennison & Essery    174 pages    Softback    2011

 

Chapter and verse on the good looking and powerful "Compounds", full drawings and technical details of construction, variations and performance . With their origins being with the Midland Railway and overshadowed by later designs they nonetheless make an interesting subject.

 

https://www.titfield.co.uk/Wild-Swan/Locomotives.htm

 

 

Jason

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Vacuum ejector for the train brakes. It was always mounted on the driver's side, wither left or right hand drive (Midland and early LMS built ones were right hand).

 

It was a common fitting on all vacuum fitted engines: Compounds; 2Ps; 4Fs; etc. Ir was also fitted to parallel Royal Scots and Patriots and Horwich Crabs.

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Thankyou for that, I have noted the books, I will be doing it  as a L M S loco, as these are the wheel s that i have, now i know what the part is called i shall have a look at the casting suppliers, I was hoping that other L m S locos had this part, That means that i may be able to get it, Thankyou

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On 04/05/2021 at 17:02, Steamport Southport said:

LMS or Midland though?   They were two entirely different beasts with little in common. Even have different size wheels. 

 

Surely the driving wheel diameter was the principal difference, at least between superheated Midland Compounds in 1923 and LMS Standard Compounds. Same boiler, same cylinders, same motion.

 

The differences between the original Smith-Johnson Compounds (see avatar) and the Deeley Compounds were much more fundamental, as Deeley was keen to stress. He was out to avoid paying patent royalties to Smith's executors, whereas Johnson and Smith had been close friends for nearly forty years.

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Surely the driving wheel diameter was the principal difference, at least between superheated Midland Compounds in 1923 and LMS Standard Compounds. Same boiler, same cylinders, same motion.

 

The differences between the original Smith-Johnson Compounds (see avatar) and the Deeley Compounds were much more fundamental, as Deeley was keen to stress. He was out to avoid paying patent royalties to Smith's executors, whereas Johnson and Smith had been close friends for nearly forty years.

 

They're very different as anyone who has ever looked at converting a Gem kit or Hornby RTR into an LMS version will tell you. The loading gauge is a major difference.

 

Most of the differences are things like boiler pitch, cabs, tenders, boiler fittings, driving wheels sizes, splasher sizes, frames, etc.

 

All very well saying they have some of the same parts. But so do Castles, Halls, Saint, Stars, Moguls, 28XXs, etc. 

 

So similar they had to write a separate book of 174 pages about them rather than just lumping them all together..... 

 

 

 

Jason

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37 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

So similar they had to write a separate book of 174 pages about them rather than just lumping them all together..... 

 

I had better go and re-read it.

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The boiler pitch was 8ft 6in for both MR and LMR Compounds. I have the GA drawing for the Midland version, but the weight diagrams for both.  These don't give the radius of the splashers, but looking at photos, I can't see a difference, but it would be only 1.5in if at all. I struggle to see differences in the cab design too. Chimney and dome covers were lowered on LMS designs. Tenders varied - quite a lot - but all based on the original Midland design; unlike the LNWR, Midland engines tended to be married to their engines for life. Front frames varied, even on an individual engine as well as different builds; they were bolted on to the front of the cylinders so easily changed.

 

The main ways of telling Midland and LMS built Compounds apart was the latter had flatter dome covers and Fowler tenders; you had to look extremely closely to see most other differences.

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