Bachmann Summer 2021 - New products - New 24/0

[Bomag]

7 minutes ago, Chris M said:

Not moaning but just wondering if Graham Farish is going to quietly disappear over the next few years. It’s all about getting a return on investment and maybe the British N gauge market is just too small for it to make business sense for Bachmann to invest in it.

 

Perhaps Kader should off load it to a company who can have access to other manufacturing capacity, so that production can fit it with varying capacity across the globe. There wasn't any EFE this time was there?

Edited May 5, 2021 by Bomag

[60800]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Why? They will probably sell many times more than the "rival" model which you can't even buy as they are never in stock.....

 

I was after a 24081. Never seen one. Where are they all? Oh they made a limited run of about 10 which were all sold to "friends". Yes, I'm slightly exaggerating, but with the other manufacturer it's like you need to know the secret knock in order to get things.

 

So as good as it may be, I'll now buy a Bachmann version in BR Blue as at least you can buy them!

 

 

Jason

 

Hi Jason,

  I probably should have expanded my original comment as I in fact share your view!

 

The 'oh dear' was referring to another small manufacturer being stomped on, but as you say, their customer relations policy and batch size is erm 'interesting' to say the least.

Cheers,

60800

[woodenhead]

Just now, 60800 said:

 

Hi Jason,

  I probably should have expanded my original comment as I in fact share your view!

 

The 'oh dear' was referring to another small manufacturer being stomped on, but as you say, their customer relations policy and batch size is erm 'interesting' to say the least.

 

Cheers,

60800

SLW are big boys as are RevolutioN and Accurascale - why is it ok for them to model locos that Bachmann have in their catalogue but not for Bachmann to retool their existing models just because someone else has done one.  Its a two way street and it is business.

 

SLW have already moved on and sold a lot of 24/0 - it's not as if this is a head to head rushing to a release date like say the Terriers with Rails and Hornby.

 

I'd say Bachmann are a lot more polite when it comes to duplicated models.

[Andy Mac]

15 minutes ago, MonsalDan said:

I think people are perfectly entitled to moan.  We have had more than a decade of stagnating wages with a rise in prices across the board.  Many of us will vote with our wallets.  I realise that this website is in the pocket of the manufacturers so criticising prices tends to get shut down pretty quickly (See Andy's comment above) but if you price us out of the hobby don't expect us to keep shelling out our hard earned money for your products.  It works both ways.

I fail to see the point in moaning about the price.... it is what it is....

 

Unsurprisingly, I don’t hear many moans from people who later sell their purchases on Ebay, and recoup most if not all of their original expenditure....  Not many hobbies allow you to play trains for a few years and then get all or most of your money back!

[Chris M]

I’m still cheerful overall. I’m looking forward to getting a GWR 800 from Kato and a cream & chocolate 142 from Dapol. I’ve already bought one of the new livery Dapol Westerns recently so that’s probably all my spend for the year. I will probably pick up a previously announced Farish RU and I’ve got some Peco CDAs on order. So plenty of goodies to look forward to. I’m also eagerly awaiting announcement of the next Sonic steam loco. In reality and despite nothing of note from Bachmann it’s still good to be an N gauge modeller.

[MikeParkin65]

3 minutes ago, 60800 said:

 

Hi Jason,

  I probably should have expanded my original comment as I in fact share your view!

 

The 'oh dear' was referring to another small manufacturer being stomped on, but as you say, their customer relations policy and batch size is erm 'interesting' to say the least.

 

Cheers,

60800

Different markets that only have a small overlap.

 

Bachmann are predominantly in the adult trainset/rtr market (which I am happy to admit to being in myself). SLW are creating a finescale rtr market from and for modelers  with higher aspirations. There is plenty to do to my trainset before it could justify a SLW 24 (if one were available to buy!) but I am up for a  Bachmann enhancement on their 20 year old previous version.

 

I'll buy a new Bachmann 24/0 but that isn't a lost sale to SLW. 

[Markwj]

There doesn’t seem to be much new product but I wonder how much COVID and other factors have had to play in this. Is production reduced out in China I have no idea maybe Bachmann will discuss with Andy at some point when they update on previously announced products.

 

As an aside now the announcements are 4x a year has that increased the mods workload by 4? The same complaints 4x a year instead of just once with the old January announcements.

 

I reckon someone at Bachmann did it on purpose!

[GordonC]

Just now, MikeParkin65 said:

Different markets that only have a small overlap.

 

Bachmann are predominantly in the adult trainset/rtr market (which I am happy to admit to being in myself). SLW are creating a finescale rtr market from and for modelers  with higher aspirations. There is plenty to do to my trainset before it could justify a SLW 24 (if one were available to buy!) but I am up for a  Bachmann enhancement on their 20 year old previous version.

 

I'll buy a new Bachmann 24/0 but that isn't a lost sale to SLW. 

 

I'm surprised that there seems to be a view of SLW being some kind of different league to the other manufacturers, perhaps on detail but not on price because the additional cost is minimal.

Bachmann Class 24/0 DCC Ready - £180, DCC Sound - £280.

SLW DCC Ready - £185, DCC Sound £295.

 

Bachmann models tend to be available at a 15% discount, but even so if you're spending over £150 to start with its not an awful lot more for the extra detail and accuracy

[TomScrut]

33 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

That maybe the case for you but the majority of RTr stuff I own is Bachmann because it produces the stuff that cover my period and area.

 

Just goes to show you can’t be all things to all men 

 

Maybe so, and I have a lot of Bachmann stuff, but they don't seem to be releasing much stuff relevant to me at the moment either at a quality (as in silly stuff like the markers on the 20s, not reliability) or price point I am willing to pay.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by TomScrut

[GWR-fan]

As well as the new 2021 items,  Rails has instock a lot of nice new Scenecraft buildings.   Alas,  like most retailers,  the weight of each item is not shown so when one wishes to purchase several items then exceeding the 2 kg postage limit places a customer at the mercy of the freight courier companies.  It is difficult to assess the weight of a resin building just going on dimensions.  A few months ago the purchase of a few items had my package at 2.2 kg.  Another store would have split the items into two packages with postage around GBP24.00 total.  Not so with the freight company.  My 2.2 kg package was cubed at 5 kg and my postage cost GBP57.00.  If I want some of the new Bachmann buildings then it will need to be single purchases.

[Phil Parker]

27 minutes ago, MonsalDan said:

I think people are perfectly entitled to moan.  We have had more than a decade of stagnating wages with a rise in prices across the board.  Many of us will vote with our wallets.  I realise that this website is in the pocket of the manufacturers so criticising prices tends to get shut down pretty quickly (See Andy's comment above) but if you price us out of the hobby don't expect us to keep shelling out our hard earned money for your products.  It works both ways.

 

When you say "this website is in the pocket of the manufacturers" - what exactly do you mean? It's not like there isn't criticism of ANY manufacturer on here. The problem with the price topic is that it has been done to death repeatedly - and the end result? Nothing. Except some grumpy mods lumbered with refereeing yet another moanfest.

 

If manufacturers price people out of the hobby, they will go bust and that will be the end of it. If they lose money of every model, they will also go bust. Ultimately, like every other product we buy, the price is chosen by the seller and the buyer gets to decide if they are willing to pay it. Model railways are NOT an essential product. You will not die if you don't have a shiny new train.

 

However, if you throw abuse around, you fill find yourself on moderation.

[MikeParkin65]

1 minute ago, GordonC said:

 

I'm surprised that there seems to be a view of SLW being some kind of different league to the other manufacturers, perhaps on detail but not on price because the additional cost is minimal.

Bachmann Class 24/0 DCC Ready - £180, DCC Sound - £280.

SLW DCC Ready - £185, DCC Sound £295.

 

Bachmann models tend to be available at a 15% discount, but even so if you're spending over £150 to start with its not an awful lot more for the extra detail and accuracy

Partly thats the SLW marketing. They have set themselves up as a small manufacturer with higher standards than 'others'. Bachmann models are not just cheaper after discount they are also readily available over the counter. Different market figuratively and literally . 

[Clagsniffer]

If “moaning” about prices is not allowed, then what about the comments by people moaning about the people moaning? If it causes so many headaches why not just post the announcements and then lock the thread.

[TomScrut]

10 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

SLW are big boys as are RevolutioN and Accurascale - why is it ok for them to model locos that Bachmann have in their catalogue but not for Bachmann to retool their existing models just because someone else has done one.  Its a two way street and it is business.

 

SLW have already moved on and sold a lot of 24/0 - it's not as if this is a head to head rushing to a release date like say the Terriers with Rails and Hornby.

 

I'd say Bachmann are a lot more polite when it comes to duplicated models.

 

Definitely, more options creates competition and helps the consumer. There are plenty of models in the market where they are just good enough to mean people still buy it as there is only one option.

 

9 minutes ago, Andy Mac said:

Unsurprisingly, I don’t hear many moans from people who later sell their purchases on Ebay, and recoup most if not all of their original expenditure....  Not many hobbies allow you to play trains for a few years and then get all or most of your money back!

 

You don't have to go very far on the Facebook groups to hear people moaning about the cost of second hand stuff on eBay!

 

Whilst I complain about some prices (for stuff I want), if they get away with it (new or 2nd hand), fair cop. I cancelled my Northern 150 as they jacked the price up to beyond what I can justify for that model. I expect I will be able to pick one up for less than what I was willing to pay in 6 months time too.

 

Another concern is that it is something that will feed itself, less sales, smaller runs, higher costs, less sales.....

[John Tomlinson]

Post deleted.

Edited May 5, 2021 by John Tomlinson
Post was frivolous.

[robertcwp]

The skinhead 24 is a bit of a surprise given they announced two body styles of 25 several years ago, neither of which has appeared. I'm adequately stocked with the much better, and not much more expensive, SLW ones, apart from pre-TOPS blue with full yellow ends and valances and gangway doors still in place. Neither SLW nor Bachmann has announced that version. 

 

The Mark 2f stock in swallow livery is outside my modelling period but the models are excellent. 

 

Disappointed at the continuing absence of maroon Thompson stock. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by robertcwp
Clarify a point.

[Roy Langridge]

5 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

If manufacturers price people out of the hobby, they will go bust and that will be the end of it. If they lose money of every model, they will also go bust. Ultimately, like every other product we buy, the price is chosen by the seller and the buyer gets to decide if they are willing to pay it. Model railways are NOT an essential product. You will not die if you don't have a shiny new train.

 

 

Whilst it is true that manufacturers would go bust if nobody buys from them, there is a greater risk and that is what worries me. As people are priced out of the market they leave, manufacturers become less viable without increasing prices more, more people are priced out of the market...

 

That may be a vicious circle that we find ourselves in shortly, and it may be irreversible. As such, the hobby as we know it today could die.

Roy

[TomE]

20 minutes ago, Chris M said:

Not moaning but just wondering if Graham Farish is going to quietly disappear over the next few years. It’s all about getting a return on investment and maybe the British N gauge market is just too small for it to make business sense for Bachmann to invest in it.

 

The last two announcements are certainly sad for us N gaugers. 

 

44 minutes ago, Kris said:

For any n gauge modeller this must come as the most dispiriting and anti-climatic announcement from Bachmann so far. Not even a new livery for a wagon. Even if a new model (or new livery) is produced that is of no interest to me it still creates confidence. Producing more ready to plant buildings is unlikely to stimulate this market sector.

This is only the second set of announcements this year, with two more yet to come. It shouldn't be a surprise that not every 3 month period will feature N Gauge products given the smaller market. Add to that the considerable backlog of N Gauge products previously announced and I really can't understand why people start predicting the end is nigh for the Farish brand, or even the end of British N Gauge. 

 

I stumbled across a useful little site at the start of this year that shows just how much is actually going on in N Gauge at the moment: www.ngaugenews.com

 

More than most would give it credit for I suspect!

 

Tom. 

[Phil Parker]

4 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Whilst it is true that manufacturers would go bust if nobody buys from them, there is a greater risk and that is what worries me. As people are priced out of the market they leave, manufacturers become less viable without increasing prices more, more people are priced out of the market...

 

That may be a vicious circle that we find ourselves in shortly, and it may be irreversible. As such, the hobby as we know it today could die.

Roy

 

Or that the mythical manufacturer comes riding over the horizon who can produce the models at a quality to satisfy everyone and a bargain price. This is what the free market promises us.

 

People have been predicting the end of the hobby due to price since at least 1946 as you can see from this letter. 

[woodenhead]

1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Or that the mythical manufacturer comes riding over the horizon who can produce the models at a quality to satisfy everyone and a bargain price. This is what the free market promises us.

 

He had a name, it is one we no longer speak except in whispers.

[GWR-fan]

I recently pre-ordered a "kerosine castle" from Rails at almost GBP200.00,  by far the most expensive new loco I have ever purchased.  Rising prices are par for the course.   I have been closely following Hattons pre-owned prices for the last four to five years.  When I say "closely" I mean really scrutinising the prices on a daily basis.   A loco that I could buy from around GBP50.00 two years ago is now pushing  close to GBP80.00 for the same model number.  A few weeks ago an old Hornby class 29 was listed for GBP70.00.  Currently a Lima 45XX which used to sell two to three years ago for less than GBP20.00 is listed close to GBP40.00.   Even wobbly runner Bachmann split chassis 2MT locomotives are close to GBP50.00.   Look to the rising prices for old Lima "flying bananas" in any livery,  most with livery defects.   I never see any criticism of rising pre-owned prices.

Edited May 6, 2021 by GWR-fan
Correct the nickname for the loco "18000"

[Chris M]

6 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Or that the mythical manufacturer comes riding over the horizon who can produce the models at a quality to satisfy everyone and a bargain price. This is what the free market promises us.

 

People have been predicting the end of the hobby due to price since at least 1946 as you can see from this letter. 

To my mind Revolution may well be that mythical manufacturer.

 

Perhaps more seriously bearing in mind market size and developments in international business maybe N gauge is now suited to smaller specialists rather than  larger manufacturers with a large choice of where to invest in new tooling.

[bmthtrains - David]

I’m never one to join the doom and gloom ‘nothing in it for me’ crowd, but given the paucity of new announcements in N gauge from Bachmann lately (lots of new releases still on their way however), you would have thought someone at Barwell would have questioned making an N gauge lavatory block the key release for this quarter as it might not be sending the best of messages...

 

David

[davidw]

I think it's been mentioned earlier in the thread - the continued lack of maroon Thompsons is a startling omission. 

Perhaps the earlier releases haven't sold well - I'd have thought maroon would have been more popular than earlier liveries 

[The Black Hat]

28 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

SLW are big boys as are RevolutioN and Accurascale - why is it ok for them to model locos that Bachmann have in their catalogue but not for Bachmann to retool their existing models just because someone else has done one.  Its a two way street and it is business.

 

SLW have already moved on and sold a lot of 24/0 - it's not as if this is a head to head rushing to a release date like say the Terriers with Rails and Hornby.

 

I'd say Bachmann are a lot more polite when it comes to duplicated models.

 

I don't know about whether Bachmann are more polite about it - check out the class 66s price undercutting, the way that Hatton's got dumped and other shops for being a retailer for spares and they can get quite adversarial.  

I always see Bachmann as shrewd and one of the best at maximising the possible gains or income they can get. While some of it is covered by PR and spin, its been known for Bachmann to sometimes push back on criticism, which is why some don't go as far as mentioning faults much. While all companies still will do this to some extent, Bachmann are very much more adapt and subtle in this rather than more direct and thus noticeable. 

 

With regards to ranges, Bachmann have always understood how the market moves on and how some products in its own range will end up with competition. While Bachmann used to stake its claim on products/items years in advance to discourage others, they have also continued to price up models and still release them even if there has been duplication or competition. The A4 model was continued with for years even though Hornby went super detail with theirs and the Mk. 1s and Mk. 2s have done the same. Bachmann will still release their class 37 / 47 and 66 to the market as they will still feel they can supply a product that will sell. Its then up to us whether we buy them or not and while the price for some products is much higher than we might want or accept (WCRC 57) some other items such as DCC fitted and lit Mk. 2s will still sell despite the protests of some.