Thompson B1 Wheels and Tender

[DaveGala]

I have a Piercy B1 and I've been looking at odd things that have become apparent as I research the loco and tender. I wonder if anyone has any knowledge regarding these two things?

 

a) I have noticed in photographs that the centre driving wheels on at least 2 locos seem to have an extra balance weight or something. The photos should help!

 

 

This is 1000 so it's quite an early example. The additional small 'weight' looks like a flap of some kind but in the example below:

 

 

61010 in the late 50s early 60s with the same 'weight'. It's not on all photos of this loco though.

 

Does anyone have any information on this oddity?

 

b) It's a long story but the Piercy B1 comes with tons of white metal pieces, none of which are identified. There is a list in the instructions but the only way to identify the pieces is to take each one and locate it on the drawing...take the number from the drawing and then mark up the part. (It took me 2 days to get through them all!). One piece called 'Water Gauge' puzzled me as I couldn't see where it should go. After a lot of looking I finally found some pictures of the front of a B1 tender which showed the part in question. Unfortunately not all tender fronts are the same....so.....which example should be used for a Darlington B1 61010-61019?

 

 

This tender shows the handles for something(water and scoop perhaps?) at an angle....one on the left side and one on the right. This is the same as the Piercy part.

 

 

 

This picture of a model tender is (I think) based on 61306 and shows the handles in a vertical attitude.........

 

So, does anyone have any information on these rather obscure areas?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

 

[Wickham Green too]

The vertical handles are, indeed, handbrake and water scoop ( where fitted ) - the little handles at an angle look to be shut-off cocks - probably not water supply as that would be closer to the injectors, possibly sanding ?

 

Yes you're correct - balance weights are a complete and utter minefield.

[Bulleidnutter]

The 2 small handles will be water shut off valves for the injectors.

[Steamport Southport]

Careful with using photographs of tenders that have been used for other purposes.

 

That was used for something like an oil tank ISTR and almost certainly altered.

 

Isn't it the tender that was planned for the B17?

 

http://www.ten.rhrp.org.uk/tens/TenderInfo.asp?Ref=245

 

 

Jason

[justin]

Just had a look at RCTS Locomotives of the LNER Part 2B and choosing exactly the right tender seems a bit of a nightmare. 61000-11 had a riveted (flush riveted I think) rather than welded body, disc wheels and the tender tool boxes were placed low down near the foot boards. The were other small differences from other tenders as to where the fireman’s tools were stored.. These locos retained these tenders throughout their life. 61012-37 had similar tenders except the front plate was redesigned to take account of the higher floorboards of the B1 cab. The fireman’s tools went in a tunnel on the left hand side of the tender. They had a large and small toolbox in the position shown in the photo of the model and prototype in the earlier posts. Locos up to 61019 retained this type of tender throughout their working life.

[justin]

A couple of further points. The frames of tenders with 61001-37 had no rear guard irons and the coping plate at the top was fitted in such a way that there was a lip all along the outside of the tank side where it overlaid the lower part of the tank. Finally depending on what period you are modelling remember that the dividing plate between the back of the coal space and the water filler area increased in height and moved approximately 2 foot further forward in the 1950s. There are photos of the side of the tenders showing the lip in Yeadon’s Register volume 6.

[DaveGala]

14 hours ago, justin said:

Just had a look at RCTS Locomotives of the LNER Part 2B and choosing exactly the right tender seems a bit of a nightmare. 61000-11 had a riveted (flush riveted I think) rather than welded body, disc wheels and the tender tool boxes were placed low down near the foot boards. The were other small differences from other tenders as to where the fireman’s tools were stored.. These locos retained these tenders throughout their life. 61012-37 had similar tenders except the front plate was redesigned to take account of the higher floorboards of the B1 cab. The fireman’s tools went in a tunnel on the left hand side of the tender. They had a large and small toolbox in the position shown in the photo of the model and prototype in the earlier posts. Locos up to 61019 retained this type of tender throughout their working life.

 

I think the first 10 Darlington locos had spoked tender wheels. All the rest had disc wheels except for those fitted with self weighing tenders. Yeadons page 21 (61009 and the tender from 61001) show this quite clearly and page 41 (61140 with self weighing tender).

 

A minefield! I bought spoked wheels for mine before I realised that discs were correct!

[DaveGala]

15 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Careful with using photographs of tenders that have been used for other purposes.

 

That was used for something like an oil tank ISTR and almost certainly altered.

 

Isn't it the tender that was planned for the B17?

 

http://www.ten.rhrp.org.uk/tens/TenderInfo.asp?Ref=245

 

 

Jason

 

Yes...I took a  still from the video of this tender going to Mizens. You could be right about storage tank mods but I wonder why Piercy included this pattern in the kit? And also note the coupling hook which has replaced the drawbar.

Edited May 8, 2021 by DaveGala

[DaveGala]

There is an article in Model Railways November 1976 entitled Portrait of the Bongos. Oddly, the drawing shows a spoked tender wheel (see post above)......the accompanying photos are of 61306 which has discs!

 

[Wickham Green too]

Any tender will come out of overhaul with whatever suitable wheels are next in line* .......... and, often as not any loco coming out of overhaul will get whatever suitable tender's next in line - though some railways / works seem to have kept locos & tenders paired when they could.

 

* sometimes even spoked / disc mixed sets. 

[65179]

If you choose to do 61010 then there was some discussion of its ex-A2/1 tender (the discussion was about its condition in 1950) starting on Mikemeg's thread here:

Regards,

Simon