Hitachi trains grounded

[great central]

10 minutes ago, Dan Griffin said:

If its on WNXX it must be true! 

 

its will turn into a load of wibble, GWR services running. Safety checks on LNER with units released on a train by train basis. services running albeit late. 

 

 

So if you look at the mainstream news sites they are now catching up.......

Granted there is a lot of wibble on WNXX, but most people posting at 04.00 or so probably have reason to be up at that sort of time. 

You may note I also cited internal sources?

[Bucoops]

Ouch, but safety comes first of course. Don't envy the customer service staff of the affected TOCs...

[Dan Griffin]

2 minutes ago, great central said:

 

So if you look at the mainstream news sites they are now catching up.......

Granted there is a lot of wibble on WNXX, but most people posting at 04.00 or so probably have reason to be up at that sort of time. 

You may note I also cited internal sources?

i did note that yes, but the whole fleet is not grounded.  GWR are running services. LNER services are now picking up. As i type 801221 is pulling into Peterborough. IMO News agencies and social media blowing the news out of all proportion. 

[Bucoops]

Just now, Dan Griffin said:

i did note that yes, but the whole fleet is not grounded.  GWR are running services. LNER services are now picking up. As i type 801221 is pulling into Peterborough. IMO News agencies and social media blowing the news out of all proportion. 

 

Not really. Every unit will need checking, and they have presumably been doing this through the night to get units back into service as soon as possible, but even when they are cleared for use, they will be in the wrong place, train crew hours might be an issue and so on. It's a complete mess so the do not travel advice is spot on.

 

[Jonboy]

Didn’t GWR pull 6 or so units a couple of weeks back for similar inspections? If so then presumably they are ok for for the PAD-DIDCOT that is still listed as running?

[Phil Bullock]

800s with suspension problems on the WR? Bit of deja vu there.... just no available steam fleet to come to the rescue this time! 

[Oldddudders]

5 minutes ago, Dan Griffin said:

 IMO News agencies and social media blowing the news out of all proportion. 

Maybe - but as long as they mention Government procurement of the specification some good may come of it. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Surely this can't be correct. Japanese design and engineering, what has gone wrong?

[Phil Bullock]

1 minute ago, Jonboy said:

Didn’t GWR pull 6 or so units a couple of weeks back for similar inspections? If so then presumably they are ok for for the PAD-DIDCOT that is still listed as running?

Wont that be electric units ? 387s? 

[Jonboy]

Just now, Phil Bullock said:

Wont that be electric units ? 387s? 

Could be, we get both flavours here in Didcot.

[Markmiller2008]

11 units have been found with Cracks on the Jacking point areas whilst inspecting for the Yaw Damper cracks already known about. 

 

GWR are running PAD-DID with 387s, DID-SWI/BTM OXF-WOS with Turbos, their service is pretty much next to nothing at the moment. 

 

Mark 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Markmiller2008

[great central]

25 minutes ago, Dan Griffin said:

i did note that yes, but the whole fleet is not grounded.  GWR are running services. LNER services are now picking up. As i type 801221 is pulling into Peterborough. IMO News agencies and social media blowing the news out of all proportion. 

 

If it's out of all proportion, can you explain why LNER ticket validity has been extended up to and including Sunday 16th May?

Hardly seems like a short term issue to me. 

Anyway I'm not getting into a war of words with you over it. My thoughts with all the front line staff who will have to deal with the fallout.

[Titan]

I have been through something similar with the Networkers in BR Days, a serious safety fault that was so bad it was a case of contacting all drivers ASAP, telling them to stop at the next station, detrain all passengers, and run the units empty back to depot.  However because of the policy of dual sourcing, the Networker fleet order had been split fairly evenly between two manufacturers, and thus only half the fleet had to be immediately withdrawn from service.  So a reduced service of half the fleet and as many EPBs that still worked to begin with, and It was also fortunate that it was an easy check/fix, so by the evening peak several units had been put back into service resulting in just a few cancellations, and within 24hrs a full service had resumed - although I think the Hidden regulations got bent somewhat...

Edited May 8, 2021 by Titan

[phil-b259]

53 minutes ago, Dan Griffin said:

i did note that yes, but the whole fleet is not grounded.  GWR are running services. LNER services are now picking up. As i type 801221 is pulling into Peterborough. IMO News agencies and social media blowing the news out of all proportion. 

 

The whole fleet IS GROUNDED till each unit is checked!

 

Think of it like a 'do not use ' instruction issued by a high street retailer, no ifs, not buts each Hitachi IET must stay out of use till inspected as fit for service.

 

GWR were not immune - not least because they would be prosecuted for operating potentially unsafe trains by the ORR.

 

However once each unit has been checked it can be returned to service if no issues found - and given the mainstream media are something like 24 hours late to break the story its quite possible GWR have been able to check more trains and thus minimise the impact on the service today compared to TPE or LNER

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by phil-b259

[Gilbert]

Some partial services being operated.

 

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W30260/2021-05-08/detailed?fbclid=IwAR0OprEaHp621yL7n3KWm-M7VN1OToWxW7HplMIOAE5LXnUCeXTWuPxmqkA

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

Do we know which units were found to have these cracks?

Is it specific to one operator’s fleet (GWR?) or have issues been found elsewhere?

Is it limited to one sub-class or across different versions?

(Note the GWR 802’s were built in Italy, for example.)
 

.

[cheesysmith]

This sounds like the British loading gauge strikes again. Because of the higher platforms in the UK, our body profile sweeps in at sole bar level. This causes limits on the design around there, as witnessed by the 158, 195 and now these.

 

BR was not immune and had the same problem in the past.

 

Like the GWR wording. They have nothing to do with the trains, the contract just specifies X amount of carriages per day.

[Mark Saunders]

2 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

(Note the GWR 802’s were built in Italy, for example.)
 

.

Were they built in Italy or sent nearly complete from Japan as the Newton Aycliffe ones were?

[phil-b259]

3 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Do we know which units were found to have these cracks?

Is it specific to one operator’s fleet (GWR?) or have issues been found elsewhere?

Is it limited to one sub-class or across different versions?

(Note the GWR 802’s were built in Italy, for example.)
 

.

 

 

The suggestions emanating from the industry suggest (like the problems with northerns CAF units) this is a metal fatigue issue across the entire fleet due to a design flaw - not a build quality issue.

 

The

[black and decker boy]

1 hour ago, Kris said:

I assume that this is the same fault as reported over a week ago but one that has now spread or is now considered to be significantly more serious. 

 

 

 

What’s being reported on WNXX by those who work with GWR and these units is that this is cracking to the jacking point brackets. The NIR last week was cracking around the Yaw Damper bracket.

 

both brackets are close to each other but what is being suggested is that as it’s a monocoque shell, any cracking has the potential to weaken the whole thing hence the caution.

 

It seems the TOCs knew yesterday as GWR were arranging diagrams so that units got back to specific depots ready for today’s stand down & fleetwide check.

[black and decker boy]

1 hour ago, Dan Griffin said:

i did note that yes, but the whole fleet is not grounded.  GWR are running services. LNER services are now picking up. As i type 801221 is pulling into Peterborough. IMO News agencies and social media blowing the news out of all proportion. 

So if it’s a non story, overhyped by train spotters and news agencies out for a headline, why are each of the TOCs public ally advising their customers NOT to travel today as their trains are out of service?

this is what the GWR website currently says:

 

Cancellations to GWR Long distance services

A number of Class 800 series Hitachi trains from several train companies have been taken out of service this morning for checks as a precautionary measure.

As a result we have had to cancel a significant number of long distance train services to and from Paddington, and while local services are running, we expect them to be very busy.

This problem is being investigated by Hitachi and once trains have been checked and cleared, we hope to be able to release them back into service as soon as possible.

Customers are advised not to travel. Refunds will be provided.

 

This is the LNER website advice:

 

Major disruption today - Do Not Travel

Saturday 8 May 2021

We are experiencing significant disruption to our train services due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time. Because of this, we're advising customers not to travel today. Your tickets dated for travel today, Saturday 8 May, will be valid for travel up to and including, Sunday 16 May.

If you choose to travel between Sunday 9 May and Sunday 16 May, please travel as close to the time on your ticket as possible. Please note that you must make a reservation before travelling. To make a reservation, please click here.

If you're not able to travel between Saturday 8 May and Sunday 16 May, you'll be entitled to a refund. Find out how to claim here.

We’re doing everything we can to get services up and running again and we're sorry for any disruption to your journey today.

 

why so defensive @Dan Griffin? Do you work for hitachi?

[Ron Ron Ron]

11 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

Were they built in Italy or sent nearly complete from Japan as the Newton Aycliffe ones were?

Except for the pre-production batch, those sent to Newton Aycliffe were not “nearly complete”, consisting mostly of the body shells.

80% of the components being manufactured and sourced from UK and other European companies.

Even the early batch of Japanese built trains, contained some, if not all of the UK and European components.

The Italian plant has been provided with the heavy plant to prefabricate and manufacture body shells, but I can’t remember, without looking it up, if this was installed prior to the 802 build.

 

.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Interesting that GWR actually refer to "Hitachi" trains, whilst LNER don't. As most were assembled at Newton Aycliffe, maybe that's why LNER are more circumspect.

[Ron Ron Ron]

4 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Interesting that GWR actually refer to "Hitachi" trains, whilst LNER don't. As most were assembled at Newton Aycliffe, maybe that's why LNER are more circumspect.

...or just different PR departments phrasing their messages differently, without that information ever entering their heads?

 

.

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[TomScrut]

27 minutes ago, cheesysmith said:

BR was not immune and had the same problem in the past.

 

To see some of the negative comments on Facebook about these trains you'd have thought the BR locos, coaches and units were perfect.