Hitachi trains grounded

[Hobby]

It's affected a section which is under constant stress due to movement of the suspension and/or lifting so I doubt any part of the structure in that photo would be affected in the same way.

[Hobby]

13 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Shame though, at least no one would complain about uncomfortable seating...........here we go again 

 

So that's what's needed in new trains... Horsehair!

[Mike_Walker]

9 minutes ago, flapland said:

I wonder if Hitachi and others are concerned that the causes of the weld/crack issue could also be affecting other areas including perhaps some of those in this shot. 

 

Perhaps a complete strip out of one set is required to ensure their isn't more hidden issues. 

This shows the cab which is built up in a completely different way to the made body which is constructed from aluminium extrusions.

[flapland]

Ok, that makes sense. I do hope they are checking other load bearing welds for similar issues though throughout. 

[Mark Saunders]

Rather ironic the flash ad after this topic! 

[ess1uk]

10 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

So that's what's needed in new trains... Horsehair!

I can sell you some 

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

14 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

So that's what's needed in new trains... Horsehair!

The modern day punter moans like crazy if they can't reach a plug socket or the WiFi isn't perfect- giving them non air-con, non heated, sprung suspension pre mid 1970's relics and they'd probably rather not travel...

[boxbrownie]

7 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

The modern day punter moans like crazy if they can't reach a plug socket or the WiFi isn't perfect- giving them non air-con, non heated, sprung suspension pre mid 1970's relics and they'd probably rather not travel...

Good...I hate those kind of passengers 

['CHARD]

4 hours ago, uax6 said:

 

I'm guessing they will wheel in Christian Wholmer as well, another badly informed fool. 

 

Awkward. 

[uax6]

20 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Awkward. 

A bit yes, but everyone is a fool at one time.....

 

andy g

[lmsforever]

They had better not scrap anymore HST,s  or mark 4,s plus a few 91,s at least they were built properly and the seats are comfortable !

[DY444]

1 hour ago, Afroal05 said:

 

To paraphrase and quote sections of the document governing ATP:

A train with defective ATP must not enter passenger service on any line fitted with ATP. (A train without ATP should be treated in this instance as defective)

The affected cab is boxed in and a multi only restriction applied Maximum speed 100mph for all movements over ATP fitted lines, passenger, or ECS.

Trains with defective ATP can be routed via non-ATP fitted lines (e.g. Relief Lines Hayes & Harlington to Didcot Parkway) and may remain in passenger service providing that all other in-cab systems are working normally. The consent of Network Rail must be obtained. To note, it is not permissible to send a passenger train with known defective ATP in the leading cab in passenger service from Reading towards London via the Relief Lines.

 

So in short, no, it can't happen without a changing of the rules between GWR and Network Rail which I suspect is unlikely.

 

As for where 2+4s can go that is much easier. The Statement of Compatibility (or SOC) governs that and as has been demonstrated with 387s to Swindon in passenger service this can potentially be changed very quickly. HSTs are already cleared in the sectional appendix, it is simply a matter of risk assessing the new locations for stepping distances, stopping locations etc.

 

 

That's defective ATP on stock fitted with ATP.  Different situation for stock which doesn't have ATP to start with.  For example 387s don't have ATP and they are permitted to do 110mph on the GWML.  Voyagers don't have ATP and they are permitted to do 125mph on the Up and Dn Main between Didcot East and Reading.  

 

As for what NR or anyone else will allow and what they won't then I think that depends on how long this situation persists.  I don't think it's entirely out of the question that this could go on for months given they have to figure out the cause, figure out a solution which will solve the problem permanently, and shop each unit to apply that solution.  If that turns out to be the case then plenty of out of the question right now options might come into play. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by DY444

[corneliuslundie]

Re using steam stock and Mk1s, I am sure the Treasury would be only too happy if they were stuffed with fare paying gricers. They could probably charge premium fares.

Hat, coat . . .

Jonathan

[APOLLO]

 

Brit15

[65179]

4 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

Brit15

 

I see trains of green

Red ones too...

[Sabato]

1 hour ago, 40F said:

 

What were the couple doing to catch fire ???. Typical waffle from the go to "expert" 

Not quite waffle. The new  Blue trains had a number of problems with transformers catching fire (as did some other modernisation electrification stock elsewhere IIR). The change over from steam to electrics had only just happened so, on a railway yet to be rationalised, there was plenty of siding space to store stock locally before scrapping. Trouble was, the local "lads" couldn't resist the non-ferrous fittings on the coaches braking and heating systems....     There was a bit of a scramble to find replacements, which delayed things a bit.

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

The modern day punter moans like crazy if they can't reach a plug socket or the WiFi isn't perfect- giving them non air-con, non heated, sprung suspension pre mid 1970's relics and they'd probably rather not travel...

Maybe they'd say "Can we have the air con and ability to keep glued to our phones back please, but keep these padded seats and legroom?"

[Ian Hargrave]

19 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Maybe they'd say "Can we have the air con and ability to keep glued to our phones back please, but keep these padded seats and legroom?"

Well tbh being able to keep up with my train’s progress ( XC ) on RTT and text my son waiting for me with my iPhone plus the fact that I have my i ticket on it is a real plus for me,a member of the Horsehair Generation GWR ( Not this lot...the original one and only).  

Edited May 11, 2021 by Ian Hargrave
Adding text

[Afroal05]

35 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

That's defective ATP on stock fitted with ATP.  Different situation for stock which doesn't have ATP to start with.  For example 387s don't have ATP and they are permitted to do 110mph on the GWML.  Voyagers don't have ATP and they are permitted to do 125mph on the Up and Dn Main between Didcot East and Reading.  

 

As for what NR or anyone else will allow and what they won't then I think that depends on how long this situation persists.  I don't think it's entirely out of the question that this could go on for months given they have to figure out the cause, figure out a solution which will solve the problem permanently, and shop each unit to apply that solution.  If that turns out to be the case then plenty of out of the question right now options might come into play. 

 

Fair point! The 57s on the sleeper don't either. However any rolling stock that is due imminently to bolster the fleet (and I'm not talking about the C2C 387s) isn't likely to go beyond Reading and the reason stated has been because it isn't ATP fitted.

I'm now trying to find what guidance I have for non ATP fitted stock on ATP fitted lines.

[TheSignalEngineer]

6 hours ago, Flittersnoop said:

Given that nothing is ever 100% safe, I wonder what the risks would be of allowing the units to operate with a maximum speed of (say) 70mph would be? At least a service of sorts would be possible.

Would you like to be standing trackside or as a passenger on a platform when you see a large piece of metal approaching you at 70mph?

 

[Reorte]

10 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Well tbh being able to keep up with my train’s progress ( XC ) on RTT and text my son waiting for me with my iPhone plus the fact that I have my i ticket on it is a real plus for me,a member of the Horsehair Generation GWR ( Not this lot...the original one and only).  

I'm probably the first generation that grew up with computers and was certainly a nerdy kid (although no mobile phones at that point) but don't have any need or desire for constant electronic access. They can be useful tools but I find the degree of dependency I often see odd.

[Reorte]

5 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Would you like to be standing trackside or as a passenger on a platform when you see a large piece of metal approaching you at 70mph?

 

Well nothing's ever perfect; if the chance of that at that speed is low enough to be comparable to all sorts of other things that could go wrong when they're in proper running order then sure, I'd be happy with the possibility. But I'd imagine it would take some time to determine whether that's the case or not and I certainly wouldn't be happy chancing it in the  mean time.

[APOLLO]

20 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I'm probably the first generation that grew up with computers and was certainly a nerdy kid (although no mobile phones at that point) but don't have any need or desire for constant electronic access. They can be useful tools but I find the degree of dependency I often see odd.

 

AND more than a bit concerning seeing how so much these days is web dependant 24/7. If the web ever gets "nuked" then I can't even begin to imagine the problems.

 

Brit15

[melmerby]

9 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

AND more than a bit concerning seeing how so much these days is web dependant 24/7. If the web ever gets "nuked" then I can't even begin to imagine the problems.

 

Brit15

Mass suicides by those unable to message a friend due to FOMO?

 

 

[jamie92208]

A video of trainsvon the ECML yesterday has been posted on the Werrington Junction thread. It xurprised me how many LNER Azumas were running but they were mostly 9 cars though there were a few 5 cars. I wonder, if as has been alluded to above, whether the all electric 800's are less susceptible to these cracks as they aren't carrying as many heavy gensets and fuel tanks around.

 

Jamie